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 Post subject: Unknown Uniform in Kaiser's Entourage
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:11 pm 
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Hello folks,

Can anyone help identify this man and his uniform?

Image

Any help would be a appreciated...
Cheers
Chris

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:38 pm 
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He is the Herrenmeister of the Johanniter Order, the German Protestant version of the Knights of Malta. I can't really tell who he is, but he's a Prince of Prussia since they provided all of the Herrenmeisters after the order was re-established in 1852. I don't know the date of the photo, but since that clearly isn't Prinz Eitel Friedrich or Prinz Oskar, two of the Kaiser's sons who were Herrenmeister's, I believe he is Prinz Albrecht von Preußen. In his later years Prinz Albrecht sported a longer beard parted in the middle like that.

Herrenmeisters since 1852:

1853–1883: Prinz Friedrich Carl Alexander von Preußen
1883–1906: Prinz Albrecht von Preußen
1907–1926: Prinz Eitel Friedrich von Preußen
1927–1958: Oskar Prinz von Preußen
1958–1999: Wilhelm Karl Prinz von Preußen
seit 1999: Oskar Prinz von Preußen


Prinz Eitel Friedrich as Herrenmeister:

Image


Prinz Oskar as Herrenmeister:

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:16 am 
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Amazing Mike... thanks very much, a full answer with photos and a list of possible names in less than half an hour!

You're right, it'll be Prinz Albrecht von Preußen. The photo was taken in 1898. It's one of the parades in Jerusalem. The full picture's here-
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... m_1898.jpg

Cheers
Chris

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:15 am 
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Mike is the man! I am suffering from photo envy.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:39 pm 
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chrispaulodale wrote:
Amazing Mike... thanks very much, a full answer with photos and a list of possible names in less than half an hour!

You're right, it'll be Prinz Albrecht von Preußen. The photo was taken in 1898. It's one of the parades in Jerusalem. The full picture's here-
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... m_1898.jpg

Cheers
Chris


You're very welcome, Chris. I just happened to be very interested in orders of chivalry, particularly the Knights of Malta, the Johanniter Orden, and the British Venerable Order of St. John. I am an auxiliary of the Order of Malta. I used to collect German royalty postcards and just happened to have those two of Prinz Eitel Friedrich and Prinz Oskar in my collection.

No one is probably as interested in this as I am, but here's the current Herrenmeister Oskar Prinz von Preußen (I wonder if it's strictly by chance that his necktie is in the Prussian colors black and white!)

Image


The current Ordensstatthalter Ruprecht Graf zu Castell-Rüdenhausen

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The current Ordenshauptmann Kolja von Bismarck

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:39 pm 
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Very interesting post. Nice to see that the royal family still survives.....and a von Bismark as well! Wow.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:36 pm 
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It seems I certainly found the right guy to ask, Mike!

OK, how about these chaps also in the Kaiser's entourage?

Image

The ones riding behind the Kaiser and his royal guest, palace footmen? Note the collar lace, I've seen that before on chaps accompanying the imperial coaches. On other photos it looks like rows of Prussian eagles. So who exactly are these chaps and what's their proper title?

Any help appreciated....

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Chris

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:51 pm 
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chrispaulodale wrote:
It seems I certainly found the right guy to ask, Mike!

OK, how about these chaps also in the Kaiser's entourage?

The ones riding behind the Kaiser and his royal guest, palace footmen? Note the collar lace, I've seen that before on chaps accompanying the imperial coaches. On other photos it looks like rows of Prussian eagles. So who exactly are these chaps and what's their proper title?

Any help appreciated....

Cheers
Chris


Aahhhh, now you've caught me, Chris. I don't know what the proper title of those guys are. You are correct, they are Prussion royal coachmen/footmen and those are little Prussian eagles on the uniform lace, but that's about all I know. They are a part of the royal household staff, probably ex-military too.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 5:36 am 
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Thanks for trying, Mike. Anyone else know who they are?

Cheers
Chris

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 6:43 pm 
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No takers on the imperial footmen?

Mike, could you describe the colours of the Herrenmeister of the Johanniter Order uniform please? Or are they any colour paintings of them?

Cheers
Chris

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:08 pm 
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chrispaulodale wrote:
No takers on the imperial footmen?

Mike, could you describe the colours of the Herrenmeister of the Johanniter Order uniform please? Or are they any colour paintings of them?

Cheers
Chris


Chris,

I don't think I've ever seen a color picture. I've never seen a photo of the current Herrenmeister in uniform, so I don't believe it's worn anymore. From the tint of the black and white photo I have always presumed the uniform followed the color pattern used by the Order of Malta on which the Johanniter Order is based. That would be a red coat, with white facing on the collor and cuffs and white piping down the front edge of the coat. The cape is black with the white Maltese cross on it.

Here's the current Prince Grand Master, H.E.H. Fra' Matthew Festing and the leadership of the Order of Malta meeting with Pope Benedict. I'm not sure what the rules are on the facing colors, black seems the most used, but there's at least two knights with white facings.

Image

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:33 pm 
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Hi Mike,

Thanks very much again. I agree, your educated guess on the colours may well be right.

You do realise that you're setting a precedent for answering any of my queries fully within 30 minutes. I'll be expecting you to keep up this high standard you've set in future :D

Cheers
Chris

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:40 pm 
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I'll try Chris, but I can't promise anything! :o

I found this photo on a German website. The left and center uniforms are for high ranking knights in the Order of Malta, the uniform on the right (with the sleeves too short) is for the German Johanniter Orden. You can see it is a red coat with white facings.

Image

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:54 am 
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Amazing, thanks very much Mike. That seems to be the mystery solved!

Cheers
Chris

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