Need Help with helmet ID and parts

[gangbirds77]

Hey everybody,

I just picked up this Pickelhaube on eBay and I was wondering exactly what region it represents. From my research on the front plate, I believe its an Imperial Reich Colonial pickelhaube, but I'm not positive. Also, what type of Rosettes would go on the side? What does the spike mean? I've not seen one like it during my research. Any help would be appreciated.



Thank you,
Dan (A new member)

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[joerookery]

Dan welcome to the forum! I think you will have fun here. I think this helmet Wappen is from Alsace-Lorraine. Here are some things that I've written previously:

Officially known as the wappen for the Reichesmilitärgericht. Beamte and police inside the Reich.

Alsace-Lorraine (Elsaß-Lothringen)
This was a prize seized from France after the Franco-Prussian war of 1871. It was a Reich’s Province until it became a quasi-state in 1911. The head administrator was appointed by the Kaiser and was called the Reichsstatthalter. Capital is Strassburg i.E. the 24th largest city in the empire. Having a population of 1.8 million in 1905 Catholics outnumbered Protestants 1.2 million vs. 300000.
There were problems with this area from a constitutional perspective. The peace treaty of 1871, ceeded in favor of the German Empire all of France’s rights to title and territory of Alsace-Lorraine. However the imperial constitution made no provision for the disposition and administration of such a territory. The imperial constitution assumes that between the individual territories with their people and the imperial power a state power was interposed. Alsace-Lorraine was originally no state. The solution was to make the Kaiser the head of state for Alsace-Lorraine. Alsace-Lorraine was not made a province of Prussian rather it was imperial territory. The Stathalter or imperial deputy was appointed by the Kaiser and was the personal representative of the Kaiser. The powers of the Stathalter were attached to the person not to the office.
In May 1911, the rules were changed for Alsace-Lorraine and it moved closer to statehood. The Landtag for Alsace-Lorraine was to consist of two houses. In the upper house of 36 members one half were appointed by the Kaiser. Others are members by virtue of holding certain offices. The lower house has 60 members elected for five years by secret ballot based on universal suffrage. Laws are made by these two chambers and the Kaiser has an absolute veto.

The population of these territories were not fully trusted. These inhabitants were known by the very derogatory slang word "Wackes." There was great reluctance on many parts to fully incorporate into the German Empire. Recruits were almost always sent to units stationed outside of the Reichsland. Desertion rates were far higher than other German soldiers.

There were two very famous incidents which highlighted the tension between the army and the population. The Zabern Affair and the Mullhouse affair. The 99th Regiment covered itself in non-glory during this and one should remember that Lt. Bilse was stationed in the Reichsland ... often considered a foreign country.

I hope this helps a little bit. This spike seems reminiscent of the customs service but I do not have anything on hand that tells me that for certain. I think I have a picture somewhere... I will look.

Thanks for asking the question! And welcome again.

 

[gangbirds77]

Thanks,

Do you know what kind of Rosettes this helmet would take? What color combonation and what type? I'm interested in ordering repros because I doubt i'll be able to find originals.

I've looked all over online and all I have found is this website with some pictures that help very little.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=89354

Thanks,
Dan

 

[joerookery]

Dan,

Searching is fun isn't it! I'm not sure we are using the same terminology.

While I may be very wrong in general the rosette is the round metal attachment to the chin scale. The round colored disk is called the cockade. There are other words used and many different spellings -- but I think this is generally the accepted norm. Somebody please correct me. The best way to learn about this is to look at Tony's site. It is the best reference on the net and is structured in a way to teach -- highly recommended.

I think you are talking about the cockade.

Do you know what kind of Rosettes this helmet would take?

Even if I am wrong -- as usual -- it allows me to say -- darn good question. Helmets that are not strictly military are a much less well documented. References are few. In general, the Reichsland would wear no cockade as I understand it until 1897. When the Reichs cockade was authorized throughout the Empire it was then worn on the right side. Each state had a unique cockade that was moved from the right side to the left and the Reichs cockade was placed on the right. This is an example of a Reichs gendarme helmet.

on the left side there is no cockade.

on the right side is the Reichs cockade.

Officials of the state's like the picture below, should wear a Reichs cockade on the right side and the cockade of the state on the left -- in this case Prussian.

The problem is I really don't know a lot about police and customs helmets. There are an awful lot of styles. There are also anomalies. Look at this picture of the cockade for the Hamburg Zoll. This seems to be pre-1897 -- the land cockade is on the right side -- but the cockade is not the normal hamburg cockade-- I do not know what it is. It has the right colors but it is not the normal cockade.

So did I help or hurt?