Baden belt Buckles ? help needed please

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Spike
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Baden belt Buckles ? help needed please

Post by Spike » Sat Oct 21, 2006 5:52 pm

I have recently become very intersted in German WW1 Belts and Buckles but I do not have any books on the subject to help.I have noticed most states Saxony,Bavaria,Hesse have thier own buckles but I have not seen a Baden state one were they just issued the Prussian "Gott Mit Uns" Buckle ? or possibly the Wurttemberg Buckle ?

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Post by reservist1 » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:04 pm

Spike: Baden enlisted troops wore the standard enlisted Prussian belt buckle. Baden and Oldenburg Officers wore a buckle very similar to the Prussian officer buckle except that the crown surmounting the "W II" cypher is an empire crown(straight sided) as opposed to a kings crown (rounded sides) as used on Prussian officer buckles. The Baden officers belt is silver brocade with two wide black stripes and one narrow red stripe.

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Post by dave mosher » Sat Oct 21, 2006 8:44 pm

spike:

As Res described, here are the officer's infantry buckles for Baden (or Oldenburg) vs. Prussia:

Image

Image

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Post by Spike » Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:11 am

Thanks for your help in answering my question much appreciated !

I so far have a Prussian, Wurttemberg, Saxon and Hesse buckle Bavaria should be easy enough to get. There are some other States too how many of these had their own model buckle are there any websites that show them all ? As I would like at least a picture of each thanks.

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Post by reservist1 » Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:09 am

Spike: The following are examples of enlisted belt buckles form other German states as well as a unit specific Hessian buckle and 3 unit specific Saxon buckles.

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Last edited by reservist1 on Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Tony without Kaiser » Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:40 pm

reservist1 wrote:Spike: Ther following are examples of enlisted belt buckles form other German states as well as a unit specific Hessian buckle and 3 unit specific Saxon buckles.
Good Gawd!! Image
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Post by Chip Minx » Fri Oct 27, 2006 9:21 pm

reservist,

I think Tony means that he likes your buckles.

Chip
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Post by monfort » Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:26 am

Hi Spike,

Before processing in German belt buckles, buy reference books and follow up the situation regarding the fakes.

unfortunately it is increduble to see how many fakes are on the market.

For exemple the Prussian one. Do not forget to look at the small cross on the top of the crown to check the buckle.

As for a helmet plate, look at the rear.

And look at the scratches: if one is on the brass part, it should continue on the central part, the"macaron".

Eric

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Post by Chip Minx » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:18 am

All,

Monfort makes a good point. This field, like so many others is now full of reproductions. It's a caveat emptor situation.

Regarding fakes, examples of the scarcer regimental buckles have been seen where an original buckle body was used with a reproduction roundel added. The only tip off is the unaged soldering and the roundel not being completely flush with the surface of the buckle.

And speaking of the reverse side of these buckles, may we see the backs of your buckles reservist1? It is always good to know what the back of a real one looks like.


Chip
Guy A. Turner, Master Signal Electrician, Company C, 314.Field Signal Batl., 89th Div. St.Mihiel, Meuse Argonne, Defensive Sector.
1894-1981. My grandfather.

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Post by reservist1 » Thu Nov 23, 2006 11:14 am

Hello Chip: Sorry for the delayed response to your question but I did not see the post until yesterday. The following images show the fronts and backs of the previously illustrated belt buckles. I also added an example of an issue IR115 buckle.
Last edited by reservist1 on Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Chip Minx » Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:55 pm

reservist1,

Thanks for your effort to add the additional pictures. I think it is important that everyone see what good buckles should look like on the back side. In many cases it is the only way you can identify a reproduction. If you don't mind, I will add a few examples that you have not shown as soon as I can get them photographed.

Unfortunately for me, I don't have all the nice regimental buckles that you have. I'm still missing the Saxon pioneer, the 107th, 108th.

Is the tab on the 115th Hessian buckle stamped?

Chip
Guy A. Turner, Master Signal Electrician, Company C, 314.Field Signal Batl., 89th Div. St.Mihiel, Meuse Argonne, Defensive Sector.
1894-1981. My grandfather.

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Post by reservist1 » Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:58 pm

Thanks Chip: With some of the scarcer enlisted belt buckles now commanding prices well over $400 anyone interested in acquiring buckles really needs to be careful. The copies are improving, particularly in instances where a reproduction center is added to an original buckle body. I have found that the reproduction centers are generally made from a different material than the originals and the detail is not as sharp as original examples. The copies tend to be plated whereas original issue centers on pre war buckles should be nickel silver (German silver) with the exception of those few buckles that have brass/gilt centers. The most freqent targets of good fakes are Marine, Mecklenburg Schwerin, Mecklenburg Strelitz, IR107, Schutzen Regiment 108 and telegraph buckles in brass & field gray.

The leather tab on the 115th buckle is maker marked but not unit marked.

If you are interested in photos of other buckles let me know. I have most of the enlisted variations in 50mm, 45mm pre war and 45mm field gray.
I also have the majority of the officer buckles.

Reservist1
Last edited by reservist1 on Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Gustaf » Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:28 pm

This has turned into a fantastic thread, I would like to encourage anyone to add photos of the unit and state buckles not show, or any variation. As soon as I figure it out, I am going to sticky this thread, as it is too valuable to allow to move down the line.
Best wihses
And thank you
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Post by Chip Minx » Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:23 pm

reservist1,

I would like to see any unusual M15 buckles that you might have. The only hard to find examples that I have are from the navy/marines and Hesse.

By the way, what is the maker mark on your Hessian buckle tab?

Chip
Guy A. Turner, Master Signal Electrician, Company C, 314.Field Signal Batl., 89th Div. St.Mihiel, Meuse Argonne, Defensive Sector.
1894-1981. My grandfather.

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Post by reservist1 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:29 pm

Chip: Here are a few interesting M1915 belt buckles. The Hessian buckle has an unusual metallic silver gray finish. I think this may be a 1915 buckle for IR 115 but have no way to prove it. The Saxon and Wurttemburg are unusual because they are 2 piece steel construction.

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Last edited by reservist1 on Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Chip Minx » Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:03 pm

reservist1,

I have seen that finish that you have on you M15 Hessian buckle, but it is unusual and not often encountered. Who knows, your theory may have some validity.

I tried scanning my buckles and the results were horrible due to their shape. Are you using a camera? How do you get the split screen effect showing both sides?

If you don't mind, what are the tab markings on your other buckles? I keep records of tab makers/dates and have been compiling a list for about thirty years. It's a fun (at least for me), cheap side hobby.

Thanks for showing your nice M15 buckles. I don't have anything that you haven't already shown here.

Chip
Guy A. Turner, Master Signal Electrician, Company C, 314.Field Signal Batl., 89th Div. St.Mihiel, Meuse Argonne, Defensive Sector.
1894-1981. My grandfather.

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Post by reservist1 » Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:35 pm

Chip: The images of the buckles were done with a digital camera on a copy stand. I photograph the front and back of the buckle then cut, paste and crop the the images together in Photoshop.

The buckles I have with legible tab markings are as follows:
50mm Hessian, F.W. Kinkel, Mainz
M95 Bavarian, MWM 1899, 6.J.R. 3.B. 12. K I
M95 Prussian, Julius Jansen,Strassburg
M95 Prussian, Becker & Co. Elberfeld R.94.
M15 Prussian, Kernklager & Cie., 1917, Neu-Ulm
M15 Saxon, F. Grosse, Dresden, 1916
M15 Saxon, Ehrhardt & Kirste, Taucha, 1916

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Post by Chip Minx » Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:04 pm

reservist1,

Great! A couple there that I did not have. I will have to get out my digital camera tomorrow and see if I can get shots of some of my buckles. Thanks for the tips.

Chip
Guy A. Turner, Master Signal Electrician, Company C, 314.Field Signal Batl., 89th Div. St.Mihiel, Meuse Argonne, Defensive Sector.
1894-1981. My grandfather.

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Post by KAGGR 1870 » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:04 am

Hello
Here is one very interesting link
http://www.das-koppelschloss.de/startseite1.htm
Regards
Bernard

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Post by ebeeby » Sat Nov 06, 2010 10:32 pm

Is there a way to restore the missing photos to this thread?

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Post by Chip Minx » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:24 pm

I think Reservist1 must have pulled them himself, in which case, we cannot get them back.

Chip
Guy A. Turner, Master Signal Electrician, Company C, 314.Field Signal Batl., 89th Div. St.Mihiel, Meuse Argonne, Defensive Sector.
1894-1981. My grandfather.

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Post by reservist1 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 3:45 pm

I will post the buckle photos again later today or tomorrow.

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Post by reservist1 » Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:04 pm

Image
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Image

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Last edited by reservist1 on Mon Nov 08, 2010 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Chip Minx » Sun Nov 07, 2010 9:12 pm

Wow! Thanks for replacing those. They are great pieces and nice photos too.

Chip
Guy A. Turner, Master Signal Electrician, Company C, 314.Field Signal Batl., 89th Div. St.Mihiel, Meuse Argonne, Defensive Sector.
1894-1981. My grandfather.

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Post by Larmo » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:56 am

Wow is right, they're great, thanks for sharing... :thumb up:

Larry

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