Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Other powers headgear from the 19th and early 20th centuries.

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J.LeBrasseur
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Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:09 pm

I normally do not buy these, but it was an older lady that answered one of my local ads, so felt I should offer here something for it.

Anyway, it is now mine, but not sure of where it is from, anyone have an ID on this front plate? May not even be German?

I feel like I have seen it before, but cannot find anything in my police/fireman references.

thoughts?

Thanks

James

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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:10 pm

it also has a very unique metal frame on the inside I have never seen before?

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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by SkipperJohn » Mon Jun 15, 2020 9:37 pm

With the eye in the palm of the hand it almost looks like a Masonic piece.
The eye in the palm of the hand is commonly referred to as Hamsa and has different meanings in Christianity, Judaism, and Islam.
Generally accepted as protection against the "evil eye".
I have no idea where this helmet is from.

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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by b.loree » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:14 am

Generally, I try not to "rip off" little old local ladies but I know things can be different in MN. Just kidding BG :D ! My mind also went Masonic when I saw this wappen. Likewise, whenever I look at the reverse side of Uncle Sams' $1 bill. Perhaps there is also Masonic symbolism in the 3 hearts?? My father and uncle were Masons but I was never asked to join. As to the interior support, that is unique but obviously provides some extra support for the fireman or is intended to maintain the shape of the helmet??
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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by SkipperJohn » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:35 am

b.loree wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:14 am
Generally, I try not to "rip off" little old local ladies but I know things can be different in MN. Just kidding BG :D ! My mind also went Masonic when I saw this wappen. Likewise, whenever I look at the reverse side of Uncle Sams' $1 bill. Perhaps there is also Masonic symbolism in the 3 hearts?? My father and uncle were Masons but I was never asked to join. As to the interior support, that is unique but obviously provides some extra support for the fireman or is intended to maintain the shape of the helmet??
I'm not a Mason either, just a little familiar with their symbols.
This one really has me stumped. I can find no German crest or coat of arms with a Hamsa on it.
Actually I could only find a couple that had a hand as part of the crest.
The open hand is very common in Irish crests and coats of arms, but not German. The lions look Irish too.
Even in the Irish crests I couldn't find one with the eye in the palm of the hand.
This is a very unusual piece.

John ](*,) ](*,) ](*,)

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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:35 am

ok so lets add to the mystery, the next two pictures show the older style kokarden that was on it and the chinscales which I took off because they need to be fixed(BRIAN) the scales are curved appear to be German made, interesting that the leather on the scales has been wrapped in black felt?

James

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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by aicusv » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:00 pm

Do I see a "6 1/2" marked inside? I believe the hand and eye could just mean "watchful protection". I think I've seen this used with some insurance companies.
fezzes frigidus es

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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by SkipperJohn » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:26 pm

Based upon the Kokarde, along with the Wappen, I would guess that this helmet is from somewhere in Thuringia, perhaps Altenburg. The crest from Altenburg incorporates an open hand. Thuringia coats of arms seem to share the lions, the knight's helmet, and the laurel. The red-white-red Kokarde also seems to lead to Thuringia since their flag is red and white.
The only other place, that I can find, that has crest similarities that might apply to this helmet is Vorarlberg, Austria. Their flag is also red and white.
I do hope that somebody can discover where this is from.

John :-k :-k

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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by b.loree » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:50 pm

Black felt.....softer on the skin. I could perhaps look at a chin scale rebuild :wink:
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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by ww1czechlegion » Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:31 pm

A very interesting helmet James. First time that I've seen a wappen like this one.

That kokarde is very nice, and the chin scale set can probably be repaired with Brian's amazing skills.

Congratulations! :thumb up:

Best Wishes,

Alan

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Re: Help with ID on Firemans helmet

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:09 pm

again, not my normal thing to collect, but the job of IDing it is sure fun, thanks for the help and ideas!
J.LeBrasseur

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