German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

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RON
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German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by RON » Thu May 28, 2015 11:23 am

This seller is based in Latvia.
Once bought from him a WW2 Tan Painted Feld Polizei Stahlhem which turned out to be completely bogus except maybe the shell.
This one looks too good to be real as well... What do you think? :-k
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ww1-German-Camo ... 8857&rt=nc" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Peter_Suciu » Thu May 28, 2015 1:31 pm

I wouldn't buy it.

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by RON » Thu May 28, 2015 1:49 pm

Me neither but you gotta admit it looks pretty tempting
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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Peter_Suciu » Thu May 28, 2015 2:08 pm

RON wrote:Me neither but you gotta admit it looks pretty tempting
Ronny, I would disagree. Nothing about that helmet "temps" me. Without seeing more photos, seeing the interior, etc. I'm not the least bit interested. I'm tempted by a lot of stuff... that helmet is so not one of them. :D

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Stosstrupp1418 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:53 am

Dont buy it :thumbsdown: .

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:43 am

I got to examine this helmet in hand, and in my honest opinion, it looks very good, original period paint, and liner. I do not believe it was faked, or boosted in any way. John

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Adler » Mon Jun 15, 2015 1:57 pm

Oh please ](*,) ... Didn't you read the description of the seller? He writes everything is "restored" or aged, only the helmet shell is original. No inspection in hand needed I think #-o ... Unless you put a value to the new paintjob (as described by the seller).

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Mon Jun 15, 2015 2:28 pm

I do not think we are we talking of the same helmet here? You must be reading a different listing. Ron speaks of a different helmet he once bought from the seller.
Discription from helmet in question.

ww1 German M-16 camouflage helmet. Totenkopf. Helmet is size 66. Shell have Skull in front of the shell, at the back is two painted granades. Complete with liner, leather is in good condition, not dried and complete with all pads. Please see photos for more details. If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

All the beating your head off the wall must have made you a little confused............

John

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Stahlhelm » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:42 pm

Has anyone saved any pictures of the helmet in question? I recall it being one of those poorly faked "Latvian special" fantasy helmets that are posted weekly, and going by the description provided by JDT, it seems that's exactly what it is.

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Adler » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:06 am

Just followed the link... and that seems to be the problem with posting links instead of pictures...

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by RON » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:34 am

Unfortunately, the link has changed.
It was the one described by JDT and did look too good to be true but not so easy to spot as a fake. At least not from my computer screen...
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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:48 am

Last week I made seller an offer on it that was taken, on a gamble. As Ron said, it looked pretty good. I am a little busy today, and raining here, but will try to get some good pics to let you all decide what you think. I would like to hear from others on this one myself. I am a fairly new collector of helmets, and this is a learning curve to me. I kept the helmet, (return offered) it seems good to me, and looks good on the shelf! John.

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:47 pm

some pics. Opinions welcomed. John
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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:50 pm

some more
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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:54 pm

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:59 pm

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Tue Jun 16, 2015 8:21 pm

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Stahlhelm » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:40 pm

First thing to point out is that the liner pads are modern fakes. The proportions are off and the leather has been artificially aged with dye and who knows what else in order to make them look old. The leather that was used back then was either vegetable tanned cow/calf skin or the later off-white chrome tanned sheepskin. They did not dye liner pads brown. When you see pads with brown dye, especially on the reverse, it's a bad sign. The stitching is coarse and looks hand done. Original tan leather pads for comparison:
Image
Image

The interior paint on the shell and liner band looks like it could be original WW1 period going by the pictures. Not sure though.

The liner pins are well known round-ended repros available since at least the 90s and can still be found on eBay today. The paint that covers them and the helmet exterior has been artfully scratched and aged to look old and worn.

I have held this exact type of fake in my hands more than once. What they generally do is strip the shell, chemically darken the bare steel, apply the camo paint, and then chip and scratch it to expose the chemically aged, old looking metal. The scratches and chips all have an artificially and uniformly aged look to them, and this pops out at you right away once you've seen enough originals as well as fakes. You will notice that there is no factory applied field gray paint visible anywhere underneath the camo. It's an important thing to look for.
Compare it to these pictures here of an original camo. There are a mixture of newer scratches and chips as well as old damage. The factory field gray paint is visible underneath the chips in many areas, not just bare metal.

Image
Image
Image
Image

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:30 pm

Well I thank you very much for the class. I guess it It looks like I paid some tuition with this one. Only the square end rivets you pictured are correct? All round end rivets are repro then? Thanks Again for taking the time to point detail out, I found your reply very interesting. . I had better stick to pistols........ John
Last edited by JTD on Wed Jun 17, 2015 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Adler » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:46 am

Mr. Stahlhelm knows his Stahlhelms!

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by ebeeby » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:40 pm

My rule is that if it is in Latvia it is a fake. I don't like to write off an entire country, but as far as I can tell the whole place is a cesspool of criminals, hackers, fakers and liars when it comes to eBay.

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by ottodog8 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:09 pm

I can't say everyone in Latvia is a faker, but the ones who sell things on ebay sure are. I wouldn't buy anything from Latvia either. No matter what it is. Some of their fakes are very sophisticated. You probably have a better chance of getting the real thing from India.
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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by edwin » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:41 pm

ebeeby wrote:My rule is that if it is in Latvia it is a fake. I don't like to write off an entire country, but as far as I can tell the whole place is a cesspool of criminals, hackers, fakers and liars when it comes to eBay.
Agreed :D

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Peter_Suciu » Thu Jun 18, 2015 2:56 pm

Latvia is a red flag to me. Just like anything from the Czech Republic. I'm sure there is good stuff there but there is just too much bad stuff.

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by gunner cooper » Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:40 pm

With the freedom of movement in the euro add Britain,France,Germany etc to that list. There are sellers based in the UK who are repeat offenders, I can normally tell by the way they grammatically write the description. I bought my cammo from the u.s.a. and was happy to pay the import duty for peace of mind. I know you get fakes everywhere but it narrowed the odds. Very interesting points you make Stahlhelm thanks.

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Blinker » Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:36 pm

All what is in Latvia is not fake, but it is mostly restored, like the firt helmet.
The seller said:" It has been restored to a Freikorps Skull Helmet." so there are no doubt.
The Shell is good, the rest is good restored but not original.

Ja, it was too good looking.. :)

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:03 pm

Blinker, no such statement as to "restored with Friecorps skull" was made in the discription of this helmet. John

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by RON » Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:33 pm

Guys, the link I first posted is not showing the same helmet anymore hence all the confusion.

The helmet I was questioning is the same as bought/posted by John (JTD).

And Hans (Stahlhelm) is right: It is definitely a fake and this seller (Bod Doer if my memory isn't failing me), regardless of his location (Latvia), sells German fake hats (mostly WW2) and not just steel helmets.
Cheers!
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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:57 pm

Ron, this sellers first name was Aleksandres. I have taken the opinions and remarks of you, Alder, and Stalhelm as collectors with a good knowledge, and I thank you all. As I said, I took a gamble and may have gotten burned. One thing to mention is there are traces of green paint still under the camo, but chips and scratches do look pretty uniform as Stalhelm stated. The rivits are round end, but have also seen a few on so called "good" helmets here and in books on steel helmets. I am sure their are very crafty people out there that make convincing fakes, and this may very well be one of them, but I am still not 100% sold on the idea it is. It will be getting a hands on by several collectors next week, and will most likely be going to SOS next year to be looked over by anyone that wishes. Again, I am learning (a new collector), and came here to get good opinions, and got them. I now have a better idea of the red flags to watch out for.
Thanks, John

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by RON » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:20 am

I hear you John. We all went through that.

Out of curiosity, have you tried checking that white paint (skull + grenades) under a UV/black light?
Cheers!
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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:48 am

No Ron, do not have one. I have been meaning to get one, and that would be a good reason to do so. I will let you know once I do.

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Leone » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:56 pm

ebeeby wrote:My rule is that if it is in Latvia it is a fake. I don't like to write off an entire country, but as far as I can tell the whole place is a cesspool of criminals, hackers, fakers and liars when it comes to eBay.
ottodog8 wrote: I can't say everyone in Latvia is a faker, but the ones who sell things on ebay sure are. I wouldn't buy anything from Latvia either. No matter what it is. Some of their fakes are very sophisticated. You probably have a better chance of getting the real thing from India.
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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by b.loree » Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:11 pm

A lesson for us all...I only have 2, bought decades ago. I will post some pics shortly. Hopefully, they are ok.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Sat Aug 01, 2015 11:12 am

In the last month, 2 very advanced collectors had their hands on this helmet. Both thought it was good, and one offered me trade of about $1200 in items I was purchasing off him in trade for it on the spot. May be I should have traded, as that was doubling my investment. I am possitive the two that looked this over really know what they are looking at. Both are long time WWI German collectors. I also told both that it was declared a fake on this forum before they made their evaluation. It did not sway their opinions. Anyhow, whatever it is, it looks great on the shelf...............

John

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Stahlhelm » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:25 pm

I stand by my opinion that this is a made-to-deceive fake and would add that, as such, it is an example of the lower end of the spectrum in terms of the quality that is achieved by fakers. I shudder to think of what some of the stuff in their collections looks like if they both liked this helmet in-hand.

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by JTD » Sun Aug 02, 2015 9:30 am

Mr. Stahlhelm, my intention of the post was not to say you are wrong in your assessment, and I am sorry if it was taken that way. Your time taken to give input was appreciated on my end. John

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Re: German Camouflage Stahlhelm M1916 with Totenkopf

Post by Stahlhelm » Sun Aug 02, 2015 1:41 pm

JTD wrote:Mr. Stahlhelm, my intention of the post was not to say you are wrong in your assessment, and I am sorry if it was taken that way. Your time taken to give input was appreciated on my end. John
No worries, no offence was taken and there's absolutely nothing to apologize for.
Hans

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