Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

This section is devoted to the steel helmets worn by the Kürassier and Jäger zu Pferde regiments prior to and during WW1

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SkipperJohn
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Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by SkipperJohn » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:38 am

A while back Chas wrote an excellent thread comparing a Schultz & Holdefleiss JzP helmet and a Herman Weissenburger JzP helmet. I tried to add to that thread but apparently I tried to add too much because it just stopped typing mid sentence.

Here are two additional manufacturers to add to the list.
The first is a C.E. Juncker 1916. The body of the helmet is chemically treated and is a deep blue in color. The fittings are a matte silver in color and appear to have a German silver, or some other nickel alloy, wash.

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The second is a Damaschke 1916. The body of this helmet is chemically treated also but is more black than blue in color. The different metal parts on this helmet have also retained the black color differently. The fittings are oxidized gray metal, not painted, and they retain their original finish.

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In a side to side comparison the differences in shape can be seen. The tail of the Damaschke is turned up much more than that of the Juncker. The Kokarden are different sizes, but this is of no consequence, both of these helmets can be found with either the 63mm Kokarden or the 48mm Kokarden.

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The cloverleaf spike base, between the leaves, on the Juncker is square cut, while the area between the leaves on the Damaschke is rounded, as if to match the curvature of the studs.

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The "fit and trim" of the Juncker is far better than that of the Damaschke. At first I thought that the Damaschke had been repaired by having the tail re-riveted but there are no signs that the original rivets had been removed. This fit and trim issue could be caused by having excessive weight applied to the top of the helmet or force applied upward on the tail.

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The liner of the Juncker is extremely thin and is not dyed. The paint on this helmet has noticeable drip marks where the paint ran while drying.

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The liner of the Damaschke has been dyed black but is still extremely thin. There is a period repair on the liner where the leather is very thin. There is no rip in the liner so this patch may have been sewn in by the manufacturer to guard against a future problem. The paint on this helmet is more "finished" and shows no signs of drips.

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The spike on the Damaschke is 9cm tall and has a steep slope. The spike on the Juncker is a little over 9.5cm tall and has a milder slope. The base of the spike on the Juncker has a thin ring while the base of the spike on the Damaschke is much wider.

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The most startling difference in these helmets is the shape of the Wappen. The Juncker Wappen has a longer neck, thinner features, and a gentle curve, ")". The Damaschke Wappen is short and stout. There is no curve to the shape, "I", the neck is considerably shorter, and all of the features are thick.

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In a side to side comparison the differences in sword thickness, neck height, and curve can easily be seen.

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Lastly, the shape of the skull is different on both helmets. The Juncker has more of a rounded head design while the Damaschke is more elongated.

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John :)
Last edited by SkipperJohn on Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:51 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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kaiser
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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by kaiser » Fri Jul 08, 2016 5:26 am

Only by placing two helmets next to eich other you can find diffrences ,thats why it is a pleasure , as i only collect one of eich ,to look and learn of this thread

Great of you to do a comparising study on those helmets

Jonas

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by 3littleweasels » Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:43 am

Very cool-Oh the variations !!!!!!!!!

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by JzPf » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:32 pm

Excellent comparisons! Are either of the helmets marked to a specific regiment?

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by SkipperJohn » Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:24 pm

JzPf wrote:Excellent comparisons! Are either of the helmets marked to a specific regiment?
No, neither helmet has regimental markings.

John

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by b.loree » Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:31 pm

Excellent comparison, thank you John.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by SkipperJohn » Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:28 am

The original post has been updated using picorator.com.

John :)

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by Khukri » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:03 am

Well done! :thumb up:

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by kaiser » Thu Aug 03, 2017 6:46 pm

Happy to see the fotos back with those posts
Now we can enjoy looking back to the fotos instead of those hidious squares
All hail to picorator :notworthy:

Jonas

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by woznotwos » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:16 pm

Really enjoyed that ! Thank you for your time and effort Sir . :D
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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by b.loree » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:41 pm

Great to have those pictures back, thank you John.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by SkipperJohn » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:53 pm

b.loree wrote:
Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:41 pm
Great to have those pictures back, thank you John.
And another try.
Maybe they will stay this time.

John [-o< [-o< [-o<

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by ebeeby » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:07 pm

Good stuff!

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by USMC-EOD » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:51 pm

Great comparison. Quick question...,

Any known examples of JzP M1915 helmets that were produced with no makers markings?

I recently ran across a shell with no markings beyond a "58" (the size) on the neck guard.

Thanks.

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:13 pm

yes, I recently sold one at SOS with no makers mark, just a size mark, also a M15

James
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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by SkipperJohn » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:03 pm

A couple of makers used a metal tag that was held on by one of the spike base studs. They could be removed if the stud nut was taken off. One maker (probably more) used a paper label in their metal helmets.
I would not think it unusual to find an M15 JzP without a maker's mark.

John :)

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Re: Another JzP Metalhelm Comparison

Post by USMC-EOD » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:27 am

I had forgotten about the makers tabs held in by the spike base screws!
Thanks.
I've been out of the country for too long. Nice to be back looking for haubes again.
S/F
Bryan.

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