A rare Tschako

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Adler
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A rare Tschako

Post by Adler » Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:49 am

I have this rare bird in my collection for a while now and finally managed to take some pictures. It’s a Prussian M15 lacquered felt Tschako in rather good condition.
Something is strange on the other hand, it has a Reichskokarde and a Prussian kokarde as well. I’ve looked several times to find traces of a Feldzeichen, but it seems there was never one applied an also it seems the Prussian kokarde was there forever. Is it possible that a Tschako was worn that way? The previous owner had found it with a red fabric ball on a metal wire in the slit of the Feldzeichen, but that also didn’t create any marks. I think it was something from a fanfare or circus…
Maybe someone can post a period picture or so and hopefully this little mistery can be solved…

Adler

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by kaiser » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:35 pm

that is deffinitley a rare one
i had one offered in the past but it had diffrend parts on it that i let that one pass me
don't know if i schould regret it or not by letting this model go
yours is a great one from all angles

as for a answor on those cocades the one i could buy did have the same thing with the both cocades on it
to me it is still a mystery cant find anything in my books
hopefully sommeone here can claerefy it



jonas

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by b.loree » Thu Jan 14, 2016 3:42 pm

Is this the tschako that has the wappen with the extra loop soldered in the middle of the adler chest? Such a wappen was discussed in the wappen section when I posted the picture of one that I have in my collection. This is a great piece, I have never seen one made of lacquered felt.
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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by ww1czechlegion » Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:07 pm

Fantastic tschako Karel, congratulations! Yes, a very rare bird! =D> :bravo:
By member Adler 1
Something is strange on the other hand, it has a Reichskokarde and a Prussian kokarde as well. I’ve looked several times to find traces of a Feldzeichen, but it seems there was never one applied an also it seems the Prussian kokarde was there forever. Is it possible that a Tschako was worn that way?
I can believe that both kokardes have been on it from day-1. I don't have any period photos to prove it on a tschako. But I can believe that on an ersatz piece like this, that both kokardes could have been worn instead of having a feldzeichen.

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by Pickelhaube » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:44 am

Great Tschako!!!

It's indeed a rare one and i hope i will find one for my collection.

Greetings

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by Adler » Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:36 am

Thank you for your nice comments gentlemen!
Is this the tschako that has the wappen with the extra loop soldered in the middle of the adler chest?
No, it's a standard M15 wappen plate for tschako's... In the Tschako itself there is a slit to put a Feldzeichen in, as you can see in the last picture. Maybe that's why there is a second kokarde instead of a Feldzeichen which would just fall out because it wouldn't be held by that extra loop on the plate?

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:06 pm

Very nice, I really like the older stuff.

Congrats

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by Westfront » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:02 am

Thats a rare Tschako never seen one before :bravo: .

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by Adler » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:38 am

Thank you for your comments gentlemen!

Adler

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by argonne » Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:50 am

Adler wrote: Maybe someone can post a period picture or so and hopefully this little mistery can be solved…
Sure, Karel. Here is one. Note the guy on the left. One can clearly see that there is no possibility to fix a Feldzeichen on the shako and because of that, he is wearing a prussian cockade.
War time shakos (felt) did not have the special place sewn to adapt the Feldzeichen. Some of them also had a special system to fix it behind the plate.

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by b.loree » Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:37 pm

Excellente..thank you Philippe! Your Bavarian filz is ultra rare. I have never seen a Prussian one, let alone a Bavarian model. May we see a picture of the whole tschako? I really appreciate the pic of the filz shell without wappen so I can now understand the function of the extra loop soldered to my Prussian tschako wappen shown in the Wappen section. :thumb up:
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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by Adler » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:08 pm

Thank you so much Philippe for posting those pictures, they explain it all...

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by joerookery » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:48 am

:thumb up:
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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by Khukri » Sat Jan 23, 2016 12:55 pm

:thumb up:
great !
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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by verdun16 » Sat Jan 23, 2016 3:05 pm

Dear All
I have in my collection the same type of shako, may be coming from the same manufacturer.
There are both original Prussian and Reichskokarde, I think the Feldzeichen have been added may be from one of previous owners.
I actually know only these two felt laquered shakos, all others info coming from others memers will be really appreciated.
all the best
Verdun 16
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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by Adler » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:55 am

That's almost its twin brother :-" ... and also clearly visible are the marks from the Prussian kokarde in the laquer of the Tschako.
Probably the feldzeichen was added, but do you have some other pictures of how the feldzeichen is attached? I don't think the Prussian kokarde and prussian feldzeichen would have been worn together...

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by verdun16 » Mon Jan 25, 2016 9:52 am

Please find pics showing how feldzeichen is fixed to the shako and back of the eagle. Metal wire of feldzeichen has left a clear mark in the helmet body but is rather difficult to say when feldzeichen have been added.
all the best
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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by Adler » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:49 am

Those are indeed serious marks and that feldzeichen has been sittting there a long time for sure.
This brings up the following questions: were the prussian kokarde and the feldzeichen ever worn together?
If so, why were they worn together and by who?
So at the end we have to know if I should search for a feldzeichen to add or maybe you have to take away the feldzeichen... Or both were possible and we can leave the tschako's just as they are #-o ...
Anyway, looking at the pictures provided by Philippe, it is possible they were worn with kokarde and without feldzeichen and so I can leave mine as it is \:D/ ...

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by verdun16 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:44 pm

I always think the best way is leaving helmets "as found"...
so we showed both types... with or without Feldzeichen, everyone of us know that during the war regulations were not strictly followed by troops

all the best
verdun 16

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by 911car » Wed Feb 03, 2016 3:56 am

While I am not too much into felt Tschakos, this lacquered felt model is really attractive by its shape, looks and "feel". Certainly an item I would be delighted to find.
Congratulations!

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by Adler » Wed Feb 03, 2016 4:05 am

Thaks for your nice comment!

Of course I will leave it without a Feldzeichen, after those great pictures (thanks again Philippe!) it's obvious they could be worn without...

Adler

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by poniatowski » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:45 pm

Excellent helmets folks! My thought would be that the felt helmet was found to be too weak for the feldzeichen, or that there was some problem with rusting on the 'loop' holding it in place (?) or maybe just became a case of a one-piece felt body eliminating that bit of work sewing in a slot to hold the badge. (?)
If it was added, it was the soldier who did so IMHO. After all, it lends a distinctive appearance that some might have desired.

:D Ron
I really do need to know more about this....

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Re: A rare Tschako

Post by argonne » Mon Feb 08, 2016 2:54 pm

b.loree wrote:May we see a picture of the whole tschako?
Brian, unfortunately not mine :o
We had a few weeks ago a great discussion on another forum about that :wink:

Philippe
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