My first Pickelhaube

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Sandmann
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My first Pickelhaube

Post by Sandmann » Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:58 am

Hi guys,
I'd like to show my very first Helmet :D
If I'm right, an Officer-Helmet of an NCO-School Instructor or Staff? I found it on aftersale of 16th contemporary History-Auction from Ratisbons.com. Jim Turinetti helped me to minimize the risk of obviously fakes. Again, special thanks for that help :)
Hope you'll like it as I do . I'm very happy with my first Pickelhaube \:D/
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Best wishes, Sandy

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SkipperJohn
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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by SkipperJohn » Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:01 pm

And it starts! It won't be long now and you will have a attic full of these.

Congratulations. Beautiful helmet.

John :bravo:

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Sandmann
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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by Sandmann » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:10 pm

Yes, it seems you are right. First, I just wanted one Helmet on the shelf but I could imagine a bunch of Helmets, just need the money and the right helmets :D
Best wishes, Sandy

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pickelhauben
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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by pickelhauben » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:35 pm

VERY NICE FIRST HELMET !!!

My first was a Prussian Grey EM .

You are off to a great start.

:D :D :D

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by 911car » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:22 pm

Very nice helmet. Congratulations.
It seems that the spike is detachable, like on a wartime officer helmet. Do you confirm?
And, pardon my ignorance, but shouldn't this rather be for an Unteroffizier? Didn't officers in this unit have the enamelled Suum Cuique center? I just don't know; these are so rare...
Bruno

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Sandmann
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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by Sandmann » Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:59 pm

Thank you all :D
I think the Helmet is around 1900, the Spike is not like in 1915 (Please correct me if I'm wrong, I am still a Newbi). Concerning the Star I thought the same first. But Jim told me that the complete Staff of NCO-Schools have worn this type of Star, Officers and NCO's.
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by b.loree » Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:26 am

Congratulations,very nice condition and very rare.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by edwin » Sat Sep 09, 2017 3:31 am

Congrats and did you realize that the haube virus is very contagious?

Regards,

Edwin

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Sandmann
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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by Sandmann » Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:08 pm

Thank you guys..Yes it is a strong addiction. In my imagination I already got a full Emperor-Room, like a small Museum :D
I learned so much interesting stuff about Spiked-Helmets, Imperial Germany and WW1 in the last Month's and it there is surely so much stuff I'll never know....it will never get boring, I guess.
I never was interested in collecting something but these Helmets changed it all. I'm official infected with the "Pickelhauben"-fever and I hope that it will never become cured :lol:
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by poniatowski » Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:53 pm

Sandmann wrote:Yes, it seems you are right. First, I just wanted one Helmet on the shelf but I could imagine a bunch of Helmets, just need the money and the right helmets :D
Yup. I too wanted 'just one'... but it never stopped until they became too expensive. You have an excellent first example! :)

:D Ron
I really do need to know more about this....

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by kaiser » Mon Sep 11, 2017 5:37 pm

If this helmet is your first one ,you have a very good set of eyes for quallity
Can you even find them better than this
Very good first haube
There will be more to follow when you collect haubes

Jonas

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by Tony without Kaiser » Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:14 pm

Sandmann wrote:Jim Turinetti helped me to minimize the risk of obviously fakes.
So I assume then that he advised you that the hexagonal nuts on the back of the Garde star are post war. Nuts of this shape were not used on Pickelhauben.

You have to be very cautious buying a rare helmet, whether it is your first or your 101st.
Kaiser: 09 July 1997 - 12 October 2010.
Nina: 23 April 2002 - 31 July 2015.
I miss my little Noodles.

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Sandmann
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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by Sandmann » Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:09 am

Thank you very much for your comments and concerns, I really appreciate it. The hexagonal Nuts were a doubt of me too because I also read that Manufacturers didn't use hexagonal Nuts.
But I found articles that the invention of it was around 1850. The Nuts did not have chamfers like newer industrial Nuts and the corrosion looks plausible. It seems they were not removed for a long time.
That's why I think it could be true that the Guard-Star was added with hexagonal Nuts by the Owner when he was sent to the NCO-School, or not? Another reason for my buy was that I didn't pay the price for a rare Helmet but for a "normal" prussian Officer-Helmet. The Seller agreed 14 days for return and seems to be honest overall.
There is surely no guarantee but I don't think the Seller was a cheater.
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by Sandmann » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:54 pm

Hello everybody,
maybe I have found the name of the owner of my Helmet... but it depense on detailed informations about the Uniform‘s of the NCO-Scool-Instructors, which I wasn‘t able to find :(
In my books I have read that some Officer’s and Sergeant’s wore the Uniform’s of their old Regiments. But in the Henkel-Atlas I only found a Uniform with Pickelhaube’s for the prussian NCO-School-Instructors.
Can anybody tell me if Officers from e.g. „Jäger-Bataillon - Graf York v. Wartenburg - No. 1“ (who have worn Tschako’s if I‘m right), have worn Pickelhaube‘s or Tschako‘s when they assigned as an instructor to a NCO-School? I didn‘t find any information about a Tschako with badges of a NCO-School-Instructor, but that doesn‘t mean something :wink:
Thank you all for your support :)
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by b.loree » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:55 pm

Unfortunately, I can't help on your recent question. I just wanted to add...regarding hexagonal nuts, I just finished a rear visor restitch on an un issued mint Baden M15 helmet. The nut for the rear spine was hexagonal and completely original to the helmet. It's colour/patina matched the rest of the fittings totally. The helmet itself was "factory fresh" and none of the fittings had ever been removed. I had to remove the spine in order to restitch so that hex nut had to come off. This is the first hex example I have ever seen.
Here is a picture as proof:
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The helmet is dated 1916, size 57cm and has the correct Korps mark, BAXIV. This helmet is a prime example of a "War Bond" helmet brought back to the US after war's end.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by Sandmann » Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:42 pm

Thank you very much Brian, that all makes me more and more confident that my buy was a lucky one :D
The Name in my Helmet is Lt. Hagen, and thank’s Philippe‘s tipp with the „Rangliste“-Books of the prussian Armee (Once again Philippe, thank you for the tipp that these books exist and where to find it :bravo: ), I found a Lt. Hagen who was a Staff-Officer of the NCO-School in Jüllich. He was assigned to that School in 1897, and came from the Jäger-Bataillon Graf York von Wartenburg, Ostpr. Nr. 1. But in the book was also noted that he has worn the Uniform of his old Hunter-Regiment :-k
If I’m right, my Pickelhaube was built around 1900. If all Officers had to wear a Pickelhaube (also if the rest of the Uniform would be from his old Regiment), the Timeframe for the built and the assignment to the School would match (because he would have worn a Tschako in the Jäger-Bataillon and had to buy a new Helmet for the School). Together with the handwritten Name in my Helmet, everything would make sense. But as I wrote, only if all officers of the NCO-School had to wear a Pickelhaube when assigned as a Staff-Officer to a NCO-School :-k
That‘s why I really hope that anybody could say that Tschako‘s with the silver Star of the Black-Eagle as a badge of a NCO-School-Instructor didn‘t exist [-o<
I really appreciate your comments, also if anybody knows a Tschako :^o
Thank you so much :wink:
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by Sandmann » Sat Feb 10, 2018 2:25 pm

It took a while but I‘m pretty sure that I got the name of the original owner of my Helmet now.
Today I got the long requested confirmation that the facts of my Helmet and the results of my investigation are matching which underlines the authenticity of my helmet.
So I’m very proud to introduce the personnel Pickelhaube of Lt. Hagen :D
  • 7B84EDAE-6FBE-45E1-B06C-3887457B71B8.jpeg
I had to ask a lot of people and I got many disappointments, because nobody could answer the question, but finally I got the requested answer from a guy from www.militaer-wissen.de...(many thanks for this :bravo: )
So I‘d like to share my journey and the result of my investigation:
As you can see above the Helmet is an officer modell (minor solderings in time but for me in a good shape) and it was build around 1900.
It’s a silver Guardstar attached to the Frontplate, which means that the owner was a staff member of a NCO-School.
When I got the Helmet for for the first time I found some handwritten notes inside the Helmet, and one note looked like a Name, which was Hagen
  • B45B43B4-7D4F-4E73-93D9-967F0F14161B.jpeg
So my interesst was awaked and I checked the prussian „Rangliste“-Books around 1900 (my is from 1904), for an officer named „Hagen“ or some like that in any NCO-School.
I was happy to find a Lt. Hagen, who was send to the NCO-School of Jülich on 17th of April 1897, which would match with the name inside the Helmet and with the type the Helmet was built. But there was also written that this guy wore the Uniform of his old regiment, which was the Jäger-Battalion „Graf Yorck von Wartenburg“ Ostpreußen Nr.1.
  • F4A1F4D1-2965-4480-85C0-E1CE6BDD9CFB.jpeg
Because of this sentence I was unsure about the authenticity of the Helmet again, because the Hunters had normally worn Tschako‘s and I didn‘t know if the note „wore the Uniform of his old regiment“ would include the Headgear, too :-k
So I asked a lot of people, even the military Museum in Jülich, but nobody could give me an answer if this Lieutenant would have worn a Tschako or a Pickelhaube after he has been sent to the NCO-School.
But finally I’ve sent my question to www.militaer-wissen.de and I got the needed answer [-o<
Fortunately he confirmed that the staff members of the NCO-School would have worn a Pickelhaube and that the investigations and the facts of my Helmet are plausible. I was really happy to hear this :D
Next step is to find picture of Lt. Hagen. For this I will travel to Jülich in May of this Year. Due to my investigations I am in contact with the Managers of the Citadele-Museum in Jülich, which is placed in the buildings of the old prussian NCO-School. With some luck we will find a picture in the Archive of the Museum, which would be really awesome...
But up to now I'm happy that the facts of my Helmet are matching and underline the authenticity of it :D
Best wishes, Sandy

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by ebeeby » Sat Feb 10, 2018 3:43 pm

Best wishes on your hunt for the photo !

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by badener » Sat Feb 10, 2018 7:02 pm

Congratulations on your research. :D
It must be a Bavarian. They always smell the worst!

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by coert65 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:18 am

Beautiful helmet Sandy, :)

I just saw it for the first time, very nice eye for quality you have!
It seems you are also bitten with the haube-virus.

Congratulations with it, and the research you did finding the original owner, =D>

Greetings, Coert :bravo:

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Re: My first Pickelhaube

Post by Sandmann » Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:38 pm

Thank you Gentlemen..Yes it seems I‘m infected by the Haube-Virus and it doesn‘t hurt 😄
Best wishes, Sandy

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