Lobster tail, real or repro?

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Gilligate
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Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Gilligate » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:28 am

Hi guys could you help me with this lobster tail, and the number KR 133. The the helmet real or a repro? Mike
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DA2DC080-84CB-4778-A394-360AF8D3607E.jpeg
8AC66A67-9543-450D-9B83-38B3D0068054.jpeg

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cptbob
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by cptbob » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:38 am

I'm not an expert on this but I would expect the trim and rivets for a silver helmet to be gold/copper colored like the spike is. Maybe there were exceptions?

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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by 911car » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:14 pm

Gilligate wrote:
Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:28 am
Hi guys could you help me with this lobster tail, and the number KR 133. The the helmet real or a repro? MikeA
It might be an M15 Kurassier helmet that has lost its gray paint. The spike looks like it is removable, can you confirm (does it unscrew?)? You should remove the spike basis and black metal plate underneath, and see whether you find a maker name and year.

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Pontiac9999
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Pontiac9999 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:32 pm

Is there a stamping of the maker / manufacturer inside the helmet?

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Sergei1877
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Sergei1877 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:37 am

This is a fake here and there is nothing to discuss

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brusik1
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by brusik1 » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:19 am

Sergei1877 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:37 am
This is a fake here and there is nothing to discuss
=D>

911car
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by 911car » Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:22 pm

Sergei1877 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:37 am
This is a fake here and there is nothing to discuss
We usually refer to a fake as a copy. Here we rather have a mixture of parts put together and repainted, and some quite possibly original, like the shell. Therefore, there is plenty to discuss to help less informed collectors who, unfortunately, have to face such items. After all, isn't it one of the main actions of this forum?
According to your blunt comment, you might also have something to learn here...

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Steve Nick
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Steve Nick » Sat Nov 28, 2020 5:49 pm

We usually refer to a fake as a copy. Here we rather have a mixture of parts put together and repainted, and some quite possibly original, like the shell. Therefore, there is plenty to discuss to help less informed collectors who, unfortunately, have to face such items. After all, isn't it one of the main actions of this forum?
According to your blunt comment, you might also have something to learn here...
Well said !

I also believe that some parts of this helmet may be original but, that's beside the point.

The point of this forum is to discuss, educate and inform fellow collectors some of whom are just starting out. If you believe it's"fake" then at least provide some reasons to illustrate why you think it's a"fake".

Dismissive comments such as "it's a fake" provide no value and only serve to alienate people who come here looking for some guidance.

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b.loree
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by b.loree » Sat Nov 28, 2020 7:26 pm

Personally, I would appreciate an education on this helmet as to it's problems. I have only owned two...both OR M15's. One a JzP and the other a Kurassier. Unfortunately, the JzP which was a huge size 60 cm. had to be sold. Consequently, I do not have much knowledge of the "Lobster Tail". It is one of our main goals here, to protect/educate new collectors in our hobby so they do not get taken advantage of. So, if one of our many forum experts, would kindly enlighten me on this, I would like to learn what to look out for.
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Amybellars » Sun Nov 29, 2020 1:11 am

911car wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:22 pm
Sergei1877 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:37 am
This is a fake here and there is nothing to discuss
We usually refer to a fake as a copy. Here we rather have a mixture of parts put together and repainted, and some quite possibly original, like the shell. Therefore, there is plenty to discuss to help less informed collectors who, unfortunately, have to face such items. After all, isn't it one of the main actions of this forum?
According to your blunt comment, you might also have something to learn here...
:bravo: =D>

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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by chinstrap » Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:27 am

911car wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:22 pm
Sergei1877 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:37 am
This is a fake here and there is nothing to discuss
We usually refer to a fake as a copy. Here we rather have a mixture of parts put together and repainted, and some quite possibly original, like the shell. Therefore, there is plenty to discuss to help less informed collectors who, unfortunately, have to face such items. After all, isn't it one of the main actions of this forum?
According to your blunt comment, you might also have something to learn here...
I totally agree!

Patrick

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SkipperJohn
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by SkipperJohn » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:41 pm

This appears to be an M15 that has had the spike and base painted gold. When your photos are blown up you can see where the spike screws on to the lug, as any M15 would. It also appears that one of the chinstrap mounting lugs is either painted gold, or has an older style replacement. The trim and rivets have all lost their gray paint, but they are definitely not brass like an older model would have.
I would suspect the liner as being a replacement. The clean leather and new style painted grommets kind of give it away.
My big question is --- Who is KR 133? There were not that many Kurassier Regiments?????

Is the Wappen steel or brass?
If this is cheap enough, it might provide a nice restoration project.

John :?

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Steve Nick
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Steve Nick » Mon Nov 30, 2020 9:11 am

John:

I agree with your assessment. I also think the spike base dome fasteners are too large, probably not original. I suspect the Wappen is a good one but not original to the helmet.

Like you, I'm drawing a blank on the "KR133" marking. I can't see how it relates to a regimental marking.

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Sergei1877
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Sergei1877 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:46 pm

911car wrote:
Sat Nov 28, 2020 3:22 pm
Sergei1877 wrote:
Fri Nov 27, 2020 11:37 am
This is a fake here and there is nothing to discuss
We usually refer to a fake as a copy. Here we rather have a mixture of parts put together and repainted, and some quite possibly original, like the shell. Therefore, there is plenty to discuss to help less informed collectors who, unfortunately, have to face such items. After all, isn't it one of the main actions of this forum?
According to your blunt comment, you might also have something to learn here...
I was not rude to anyone here. If you think so, then I apologize. I don't know English. therefore I use google translator. This helmet is an Indian or Chinese copy, I don't know where else they are made. eagle original but not cuirassier, I think you agree. I have already discussed this helmet on Facebook with all the evidence and photos. I post a photo of an identical replica of a helmet made in India and sold on eBay
s-l1600 (10).jpg
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s-l1600 (8).jpg
changed only the eagle to the original one, made the helmet a little old and that's it. even the leather comforter was left, it is made of white leather, only it was made a little old, and yes, of course, the marking, what kind of 113 cuirassier regiment ???? This helmet is heavy, unlike the original helmets, which weigh a little lighter. Here you will also not find the manufacturer's marking, this happens, but very rarely
DSC00500.JPG
this photo shows the same copy

I apologize if they thought I was rude. did not want to offend or offend anyone. But the helmet is a fake, I studied this replica of the helmet well

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b.loree
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by b.loree » Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:43 pm

Thank you Sergei for your post, photos and explanation. I also appreciate you clearing up the issue of being rude in a very gentlemanly and adult manner. :thumb up:
Remember, Pillage first THEN Burn ...

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SkipperJohn
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by SkipperJohn » Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:28 pm

I had no idea that anything that looked that realistic ever came out of India!
You can usually spot the Indian crap a mile away.
They are getting better.

John :o :o :o

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Sergei1877
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Sergei1877 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:09 pm

SkipperJohn wrote:
Wed Dec 02, 2020 11:28 pm
I had no idea that anything that looked that realistic ever came out of India!
You can usually spot the Indian crap a mile away.
They are getting better.

John :o :o :o
yes agree quite a decent copy. But she still has drawbacks, unless, of course, you put the original parts on the helmet, then you can deceive the buyer. The main drawback in my opinion is the weight of the helmet, it is more than 1000 grams, when the original helmet is lighter and the metal is thinner. And of course no right stamps

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Steve Nick
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Steve Nick » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:57 pm

Sergei:

Good of you to clear up that misunderstanding. It's difficult communicating in another language. Sometimes things don't come out the way you intended. I know that I have on more than one occasion offended Germans with my less than perfect grasp of that language.

Thanks for posting that Indian made helmet. The Wappen is awful but the shell is a pretty good effort. With some better attention to details they could fool some novice collectors.

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Amybellars
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Amybellars » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:16 pm

Sergei, thanks for the nice gesture.

Was appalled by your comment but glad that you clear it up.

:-) =D>

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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Amybellars » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:20 pm

Just curious,

You meant this helmet is a fake too? The chinstrap looks genuine to me though.
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Sergei1877
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by Sergei1877 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:15 pm

Amybellars wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:20 pm
Just curious,

You meant this helmet is a fake too? The chinstrap looks genuine to me though.
yes, of course, I myself collected this helmet for my friend as a gift to the collection, so that he would look as realistic as possible
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edwin
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Re: Lobster tail, real or repro?

Post by edwin » Sat Dec 26, 2020 3:25 pm

Another one from the Bombay dragoons?

Regards,

Edwin

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