7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

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7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Lost Skeleton » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:07 pm

Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt!

Though I saw this at the SOS, I passed it over when I fell in love with the L.I.R. 115, which I shared HERE recently. Nevertheless, the more I thought about it, the more I felt this helmet also deserved a good home. #-o As ever the case with regiments bearing a FUERST Adler, the concern is being duped by a modern electroformed Wappen. Thankfully, this specimen proved to be 100% legitimate.

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The M95 Pickelhaube is a small size — I would say 54. For the most part, it has retained its shape well

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M95 rear spine with Hinterschiene Schiebeklappe. I have a story to tell about the Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt Landeskokarde should anyone inquire

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The elaborate, overlapping regimental and unit stamping: IR 96 III B – I C – MGK – 1895

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Helmet sans Wappen — brass grommets present

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Macro detail of the Wappenadler, which retains all of its original gilt

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Macro of the reverse. I have no explanation for the black coating, which appears to be carbon. The lead solder retaining the left loop is sloppy, but appears to be contemporary. It may be indicative of a Kammer repair

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Extreme macro of the eagle's head and right wing. There is no question the Wappen is stamped brass

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The Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt heraldic star. Worn by a single battalion of one regiment, it is a bird of great rarity

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The star is two-piece construction. Having had a few unfortunate experiences with solder fatigue, I see no need to disassemble it, as everything else checks out to my satisfaction.

Chas
Last edited by Lost Skeleton on Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:52 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by pickelhauben » Wed Mar 15, 2017 2:51 pm

Nice helmet !!

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by SkipperJohn » Wed Mar 15, 2017 4:54 pm

Stunning!

John :)

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by kaiser » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:43 pm

More than nice i would say
Nothing to comment
Even very nice marked inside

Trully a nice helmet

Jonas

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by J.LeBrasseur » Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:56 pm

Great helmet Charles, love it.

James
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Tony without Kaiser » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:15 pm

Nice to see that elusive Wappen photographed so close up in detail. Thank you Chas. I would kill to find an example of that Wappen.

Literally :-x

Unlike your your helmet, unfortunately, any rare loose Wappen gets slapped on a helmet faster than I can blink.
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by KAGGR#1 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:51 pm

Question ;
Kammer
MGK
Could that be Machine Gun Komp. ?
Did they have them that early ?
or could one be in a single Batl ?
Just asking I don't know
If not then what does that Kammer stand for ?
Nothing was said about it
I thought Tony would comment
another Weitze purchase ?
It looks super as does your I R 115
so I thought maybe that that came from the same place
looks like a nice old collection showed up
2 great ones for you
Thanks
Steve

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Lost Skeleton » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:09 pm

Steve:

I purchased the helmet from Malcom Fisher's REGIMENTALS. Had I purchased it at the SOS, I would have saved a bundle on shipping, but who knows what the show price would have been.

I have no doubt this helmet ultimately saw service in a Maschinengewehr Kompanie. My understanding, per the August 1914 composition of a German Infantry Regiment, is that each Bataillon had one machine gun company consisting of three Zug (platoons). Each Zug was equipped with two M1908 Maxims for a total of six machine guns. The MGK Kammer is bolder, and partially stamped over the 1895 date, which leads me to suspect the helmet was reissued after having been originally issued to the 1st rifle company (I C).

Given some of the recent revelations provided by Philippe (argonne), it is also possible the helmet entered service as a M1891, and was subsequently modified with a vented rear spine and M95 Wappen grommets. It is not readily apparent in the photo, but there is an incused "I" just to the left of the rear spine (beneath the "C"), which I take for the highest Garnitur classification.

Perhaps someone else will shed light on the subject.

Chas
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Adler » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:58 am

Absolutely stunning!

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Khukri » Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:46 am

This surely is a rare bird ! :thumb up:
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Lost Skeleton » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:41 am

One of the factors motivating my acquisition of the Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt helmet was to complement my 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 II Btl. Reuß M95. The 1st Battalion of IR 96 was equipped with the standard Preußen line infantry Pickelhaube with KOENIG Adler, and, therefore, not terribly impressive.

At first glance, the Wappen stars may appear identical, but they are, in fact, quite unique. The photo also illustrates the appreciably smaller size of the Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt helmet. I doubt it would fit a three-year-old child of the present generation.

Image

Macro photos of the Reuß FUERST Adler (front and back) can be viewed HERE (scroll to the bottom of the page for additional pictures of my helmet).

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by festwagner » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:29 pm

Very nice helmets, very scare to see together.

I have a classic prussian helmet M 1891 which was too modernized in M 1895. In its cas too, the grommets which were put create a kind of weakness of the leather. I will put a picture when I have time.

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Westfront » Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:34 pm

Beautiful helmets congratulations :bravo:

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by b.loree » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:11 pm

Excellent Chas, it does not get any better than that sweet little helmet, great markings to boot!! :thumb up:
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by KAGGR#1 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:19 pm

Great info
Special to me is to see the M G K Kammer
not sure that I have ever seen that
outstanding helmet and purchase .

Thanks for the info

Steve

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by poniatowski » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:17 pm

Thanks for posting, wonderful helmets!

:D Ron
I really do need to know more about this....

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by 911car » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:24 pm

Rare and really nice! Is the Reuss helmet marked?

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by argonne » Thu Mar 16, 2017 5:33 pm

Chas,

Your helmet seems to come from the January 2017 auction in Soissons (France). A "big" collection has been sold there, with good things but less good too......

Regimentals was there too and bought a bunch of helmets to sold them (much expensive) a few weeks later. If I am right, this helmet has been sold 1800 EUR in Soissons.

I have the same opinion as festwagner about a M91 modernized in a M95.

Now to the markings. I think that this helmet has first been in the III bataillon, in the 10 company. Marking is 10C, not 1C.
It may have been later transfered to one of the regiments MGK as they were created in almost all infantery units between 1908 and 1913.

Philippe
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Lost Skeleton » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:16 pm

Thanks, Philippe.

If the hammer you quote is correct, Regimentals realized a tidy profit on the helmet, but not exorbitant. Naturally, I had no knowledge of the Soissons auction. Bidding against a dealer presents its own perils as they have deep pockets and sometimes force one to overbid. C'est la guerre… At least this helmet represents one of the "good things" from the auction.

I was able to improve the Pickelhaube in one respect. The Landeskokarde was Preußen. However, more than a decade ago, I acquired an original Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt Kokarde with a scrapper M95 Garde Pionier helmet. I joked with J.LeBrasseur that I was buying a helmet to complete a Kokarde. :wink:

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by b.loree » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:09 am

You had the last laugh Chas....we collectors love those situations where you buy something "ordinary" which comes with a special bit of "extra rarity" that can be used later. In my case at this year's SOS, it was buying a scrapper Prussian M95 OR's helme with an Ulanen officer neusilber wappen on it. That made my show!! :D
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by edwin » Sat Mar 18, 2017 3:01 am

Lovely helmets!

Thanks for sharing :D

Regards,

Edwin

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by festwagner » Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:58 am

Lost Skeleton wrote:Thanks, Philippe.

If the hammer you quote is correct, Regimentals realized a tidy profit on the helmet, but not exorbitant. Naturally, I had no knowledge of the Soissons auction. Bidding against a dealer presents its own perils as they have deep pockets and sometimes force one to overbid. C'est la guerre… At least this helmet represents one of the "good things" from the auction.

I was able to improve the Pickelhaube in one respect. The Landeskokarde was Preußen. However, more than a decade ago, I acquired an original Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt Kokarde with a scrapper M95 Garde Pionier helmet. I joked with J.LeBrasseur that I was buying a helmet to complete a Kokarde. :wink:

Chas
Thanks for the specification about the Landeskokarde because I noticed too that the pictures of the Soisson auction show a helmet with a different Kokarde. The lack of the genuine Kokarde, very hard to find, explains the final price at the auction. It is a real challenge to manage to draw togeteher so scarce Kokarde and good regiment marks.

Here is the picture of my M 91 helmet transformed in M95. There are the same weakness of the leather around the grommets. Here, a real hole has appeared...

Image

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Lost Skeleton » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:30 pm

festwagner wrote:Here is the picture of my M 91 helmet transformed in M95. There are the same weakness of the leather around the grommets. Here, a real hole has appeared...

Image
Exactly so, festwagner. :thumb up: I assembled this composite to provide greater detail of the IR 96 grommets and the stress caused by the retrofitting. The M95 Hinterschiene is noticeably bullnose where it meets the spike base, and the impression left by the original M91 spine can be seen where it was secured to the neck visor:

Image

This is the Landeskokarde. It is non-ferrous and the alloy appears to be Tombak. The reverse is painted flat black. The paint on both sides was applied by paint sprayer.

Image

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by festwagner » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:13 pm

Thanks, I never studied the grommets of M91/95 but the comparison is clear.
Has the JR 96 helmet still the sewing of the leather under the Hinterschiene ?

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Lost Skeleton » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:28 pm

festwagner wrote:Has the JR 96 helmet still the sewing of the leather under the Hinterschiene ?
No, the helmet is not stitched in the back. However, it does look like this (I was correct in estimating the Kopfweite as 54). :wink:

Image

Image
The grommets from inside

Image
Finally, and most interesting, one of the enormous backing plates for the Knopf 91. I will have to check other helmets in my collection for discs this size

This has been a fascinating helmet to analyze with the forum. Thanks for all your input.
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by argonne » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:12 pm

festwagner wrote: Has the JR 96 helmet still the sewing of the leather under the Hinterschiene ?
To my understanding, M91 helmet did not have a sewing under the rear non ventilated trim, because they did not have to be cut down when modified after 1895. The shell had the same high as the M95.

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by festwagner » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:25 am

Thanks Philippe for this precision which ist very interesting for my helmet

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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Tony without Kaiser » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:28 pm

argonne wrote: To my understanding, M91 helmet did not have a sewing under the rear non ventilated trim, because they did not have to be cut down when modified after 1895. The shell had the same high as the M95.
The last Model of Pickelhaube to be sewn together was the M1867.

M1871, M1887, M1891, M1895 were all pressed from boiled leather. Any of those models found with a rear seam where the leather is joined, is usually an indication that it was a pre-1871 Pickelhaube that has been upgraded.
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Re: 7. Thüringisches Inf.-Regt. Nr. 96 III Btl.

Post by Chip M. » Thu May 04, 2017 11:48 pm

The Aisne auction (in Soissons) was made up primarily of the collection of Stephane Dekerle. I think you can still go to their website and see all of the Pickelhauben that were for sale. It was a big collection and contained a wide spectrum of imperial German uniforms, gear and insignia.

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