Older Helmets with updated Eagle Wappen

From this interesting thread, I find this a remarkable image, as Billy Wilder is wearing an M1842 Kürassier Metalhelm, with a modified Wappen to the 1860 regulations. Then there are the four Oscars behind him which is remarkable. I wonder where that helmet is now?

On 10 May 1860 a Bandeau was introduced for the eagle Wappen with the motto "MIT GOTT FÜR KOENIG UND VATERLAND" (With God For King And Fatherland) to be placed above the "FR" or "FWR" cypher. Reserve and Landwehr did not adopt the new Bandeau.

Older 1842 pattern eagle Wappen that were void of the Bandeau, were modified by having a Bandeau soldered to the front to make the older eagle Wappens comply with the regulations.

Billy Wilder's example shows a M1842 eagle Wappen converted to M1860 with the addition of a Bandeau as on my M1842/60 Wappen.

So my point is, there are a lot of M1842/57 etc. helmets out there with modified Wappen and more interesting, M1871 Wappens, mostly on officer helmets. Some members own examples. So it might have been common for officers to use older helmets for many years after newer models came along.

More: I had very interesting correspondence with a member Michael on this observation, that some older helmets such as this M1857 clearly has an M1871 eagle Wappen. It should be noted though, that the eagle Wappen is an issue pattern (solid crown).

Old helmet + updated Wappen.

Also, most officer leather Pickelhauben seem to be Landwehr or Reserve. This probably is not a coincidence.

So these observations have made me pause, and re-think the use of older helmets with updated Wappens. I believe these are perfectly legitimate.

This image being from Reiner, H. (2000) Militaerische Kopfbedeckungen Der Kaiserzeit Motorbuch Verlag, Stuttgart

Really interesting observations. Thank you. I was watching the Danish series 1864 years ago and noted that costume design had Friederich Graf von Wrangel in a model 1842. I thought at the time well.. hmmm... but interesting... like who's going to argue with the guy in command who's been around long enough to be wearing the high helmet that he donned in the 1848 campaign.

Very interesting post and I agree with you. I read a lot in regulations and news about uniforms of the time and it was often noted that officers were still allowed to wear the helmets they had. This was certainly, because they had to buy their equipment at their own expense and the helmets were not cheap even then.

Hello

Her my Helmet, the owner became an officer/Leutnant proven 1851.

The tall helmet with the expansive eagle makes an impressive looking helmet. Unique. Fascinating discussion. I had wondered about this helmet ever since this original post but now I wonder if this isn't a comparable situation.

Then like myself, you appear to have recognized that GR Nr. 9 as an M1860 pattern officer eagle Wappen with pierced crown (an eagle Wappen I would love to find).

So to me (now) it seems completely normal that officers (in particular) were allowed to wear the older and expensive helmets that they had purchased, as long as they updated the eagle Wappen to current regulations.

Helmmitspitze said:

Hello

Her my Helmet, the owner became an officer/Leutnant proven 1851.

Click to expand...

And Michael, you are correct I have been researching this since our conversations and this is the conclusion I finally came to. You helmet is correct and original, I just did not understand why.

So you have an absolutely beautiful early helmet, that has been worn after 1871 with the eagle replaced by the man who wore it. I wonder if it could have been a matter of prestige; a soldier wearing his old helmet with new eagle Wappen (to meet current regulations) would be seen as one of what we respectfully called ‘The Old Guard’ which were soldiers with many years of service.

When reading this thread I recalled an interesting memory that may follow the same type of situation.
When I was first commissioned a second lieutenant in the U.S. Marine Corps I asked for permission to use my Dad's gold bars. My Dad was in the Corps from WWII to Korea. The bars were different than the ones used in my day (slight taper and I think a little smaller --- mine were flat). Permission was granted, to honor my Father (he had already passed), but I was told that the bars must be changed right after the ceremony because they were no longer regulation. Of course, I agreed.
Perhaps officers could use helmets purchased earlier, or even hand-me-downs, as long as they met current regulations??
I have long believed that enlisted, issue, helmets were also upgraded in this fashion to keep them in service. It is not uncommon to see a model 1867 with an 1871 Wappen.

John

Very interesing.

The exciting thing in our hobby is we always can learn new things .

Hello Tony, Is this an example of an 1842 Dragoner officer's helmet that has an updated plate as well? The eagle is different than the one on the 1856 model you have discussed here and at Kaiser's Bunker. I recall there has been some discussion on this site about the differing configuration of the legs for example.

Nacuaa that is a superb helmet. Beautiful. One of the reasons I prefer to collect issued helmets, is that they are (mostly) predictable. On my M1856 it has several features not seen before 1860 such as the shape of the crown and legs as you noted.

Unfortunately there is far less reference to officer/private purchase) eagle Wappens. The Dragoner eagle Wappen you show above has a pierced crown (officer/private purchase) and looks very much like the officer’s Wappen found on later helmets. But when did that style come into use? I do not know. If it was a Line Dragoner it would be easy, as it would have a blank chest or a Bandeau which makes easy to at least date to pre or post 1860. But with a Landwehr cross, it is not so clear. So this is an appropriate thread I think, for that example. Again, that is a beautiful helmet.