Help needed to ID Pickelhaube

Can anyone help me identify the pickelhaube this man was wearing at a funeral held in Germany in September 1917? I believe it might be a civil servant's type (such as a policeman's?). Thanks in advance for responses!

I believe you are correct with the civil servant family. It appears to have a mini-ball on the spike tip, similar to one in my photo. The wappen looks more like the one in my other photo.

Ron

What fantastic bullion embroidery on his collar for a civil servent also that black band at the cuff looks almost like a black mourning armband of some sort but it also looks like it could be part of the cuff.

Those two things draw my eye, very interesting for sure.

Thanks so much for responding so quickly. It really is a unique, interesting outfit. If it turns out to be a civil servant uniform, I will know exactly who it was. I am hoping that we can confirm that the man was a Hauptmann in the Polizeidienstgebaeude (Building/Construction Police) in Berlin. I didn't want to influence anyone with that information at first...but I'm now hoping that someone can confirm it.
Thanks again!

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By the way, Rkinkade, you have two really nice, presumably somewhat rare Pickelhaubes in your collection!

In my opinion, it is a Wurttemberg fire officer helmet that is shown in the period photo. This is also the helmet shown in Rkinkade's left hand picture.

Here's another... from Rhineland, looks like post WWI without a crown, orb or scepter? Kofferhelm type with removable spike. I've seen a couple of these with the same wappen and crest. Wouldn't the horse on the crest in Rkinkade's be Westphalia, now linked with Rhineland?

Cheers!

Ron

Hello,
He is a senior officer with the rank of general, head of the Feuerwehr, from a Land. It is a shame that the front panel cannot be precisely identified in order to determine its Land of ownership. The round, non-angular visor, with a cross-shaped tip base and a point with a small top ball, as well as the black velvet facings are characteristic of firefighters' uniforms.

Nothing too exotic; a Leutnant of the Berliner Schutzmannschaft.

Regards
Glenn

That's it!!! Definitely! Thanks Glenn for the photo and ID. Now I'm positive that the man in my photo is Fritz Schnell. As I related above, he was a Hptm in the Berlin Police force; and the photo was taken at the graveside of his brother-in-law, Kurt Wolff, who was a 33-victory ace with Manfred von Richthofen's Jagdstaffel 11. Kurt was killed on 15 September 1917 and buried in Memel, East Prussia on 24 September. I'm writing Wolff's biography and your ID has been very helpful. Many thanks!

Well done, Glenn, that's correct.
The central emblem in the middle of the front plate is therefore the Berlin Bear. Thank you.
The distinction between Polismann and Feuermann is difficult to make. Below is a Berlin fireman from before 1860. He has the same identification plate as the Schutzmannschaft.


And police officer helmets have the same characteristics as those of firefighters, in the same state or even city.

The police and firefighters were not subject to the military AKO regulations. Hence the diversity of details. Below, an officer's helmet from the Baden Fire Brigade. Here, there are markings specific to the firefighters:
---Artillery crest, but silvered, cruciform base, and angular visor.
--Military Baden griffin, but with the general motto of the firefighters.

But this is not always the case.

Georg Fritz Schnell was a Leutnant in the II. Polizeihauptmannschaft, III. Polizeibrigade of the Berliner Schutzmannschaft in 1914. He was that time also an Oberleutnant der Reserve (18.12.12) in Infanterie-Regiment von Boyen (5. Ostpreußisches) Nr. 41. Promoted to Hauptmann der Reserve effective 27.1.15 while serving with the Ersatz-Bataillon of the regiment. Awarded the Charakter of a Major (a.D.) on 21 March 1921.

Regards
Glenn

WOW That collar embroidery is even more beautiful than I initially thought, thanks for that picture and info Glenn.

I would live to see one of those in person. That has to be one of the most elaborate collars of the period, and I thought a General had a beautiful collar.

Always wonderful to learn new things.
MFG John Josef