1915 Model Stick Grenade with 7 second fuse

Stahlhelm

Stahlhelm

Member
Stiehlhandgranate mit Brennzünder, introduced in 1915. From what I've been able to find out, this model (with this particular canister and the 7 second fuse) is apparently the very first manufactured version of the friction fuse variant of Stielhandgranate. It's in surprisingly good condition with most of the original paint and even the paper label. The handle has the remains of the lacquer that covered the paper wrap of the pull cord loop.

Any further information on these would be very welcome. I haven't been able to locate other examples of this exact type for comparison.

Hans

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M15stickinterior.jpg

Schematic of this grenade:
Stielhand1915Schema.jpg
 
Advances in technology meant that later grenades used much more effective explosives, which is why the M17 stick grenade had a smaller canister. The fuses became more reliable, and the later model grenades usually had 5 1/2 second fuses.

The 1915 model and the more commonly found 1917 version below for comparison.

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Hey Hans, If you would please send this grenade to me, I would be very happy to give you an honest assessment of the construction and condition of the grenade, and I would be more than willing to store it for you in a better climate than you have there.
Best
Gus
 
Can't argue with that! Although no worries about the storage & climate conditions here Gus. When it's not wrapped in plastic in the damp basement, I have it drying out in direct sunlight for days at a time. :tard: Nothing some steel wool and a fresh coat of paint won't fix. :wink:
 
Very nice, especially the paper label :thumb up:

I have a question along the lines of this topic. Recently I found in an Austrian dugout, a 1917 can, without the handle. Not an uncommon find. However this can is different. It has what appears to be the top half of a bullet cartridge attached to it, complete with the bullet. The cartridge is in steel, not copper washed or anything, just plain steel. The bullet is copper. The cartridge seems to have been factory fitted, it has a formed lip, perfectly shaped to fit the can, the end where it attaches to the can is open, so that if the grenade was detonated the bullet would undoubtedly "fire" out of the cartridge. The can is filled with chalk that has been packed in hard. At first I thought it was a trench made club, as the Austrians seemed to be fond of these, but after cleaning it became apparent, without a doubt that cartridge was fitted in a factory and not by any enterprising Austrian in the trenches. Also, the cartridge is attached at the base of the can, near where the handle would screw in. Being honest, if there was a handle on the grenade, it would be very hard to actually use the cartridge as a spike. To get maximum "damage" from fitting it for use as a club, it would need to be further up the can near the top. Also I would guess that they would fit more than one?

So here is the question. Does anybody know of or has heard of some sort of booby trap, maybe a prototype, derived from the 1917 grenade? Seems to me if that can was attached to a picket in the wire, at low level, with the "bullet" pointed across a gap in the wire, it would be an easy job to extend the pull on even a normal 5 and a half sek stick to make a trip wire. I know the French had a similar device, but can find no ref. to a german equivalent. If anybody has any info or insights into this I will be a friend for life. I have trawled through all my ref. books and spent hours looking at period pics in the hope that I might spot one of these attached to a wire somewhere!

In the case of the thing I have found, Im pretty sure it was used as a club, or at least was tried as a club. The can has been deliberately filled with chalk to give it weight, and the copper bullet head has been damaged on the tip, and driven back into the cartridge. I have never found or seen anything similar.

I will post some pics, just as soon as my camera charges up :x
 
Hey Kellerrat,
A photo would be nice to better understand the construction, my first thought was of the M1916 Werfgrenat, which is propelled via a standard rifle cartridge imbedded in the base.
imSchtzengraben015x.jpg

Best
Gus
 
Hi Gus

No its an m17 grenade. Here is a pic, not great I know but im still working on my photography.

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As you can see, very much a relic, but what is it. It was found without a handle, and without the normal fuse handle rusted to the threads. The threads are so clean I can screw a handle straight in there.

The carrying hook has been purposely bent off, it hasnt rusted away, you can see it was bent away.

That steel cartridge is purposely fitted. It has a pre formed lip at its base and the hole in the can is exactly the same size. It looks like an insert has been pushed into the back, from inside the can, to form a similar lip on the inside. That bullet head would undoubtedly leave the cartridge if the grenade was detonated.

You can also see the damage to the tip of the bullet, and the fact that it has been driven back into the cartridge, probably by being bashed againt the dugout wall Im guessing.

Any info or insight will be very much appreciated, I have found no info on this in any ref. books, pics or on the net, but someone out there must know something.

This is pretty much as it was found, I started fairing the rust pitting, as I was intending to restore it, fit a handle and display it in my dugout display as a club, but as I say, Im not sure it was designed as a club, I think its some sort of wire mine, similar to the french version.

What do you folks think?

I have downloaded the user manual for my camera, because ive forgotten how to use it, so when I re learn how to do close ups that are in focus I will post some more

P.s. Its Andy I really must remember to sort my sig out.
 
Hey Andy,
I knew from you description that it was not the Werfgrenat, but I was hoping that I did not understand your description, unfortunately, you described it very well, and the photo does not help as that makes no sense to me. It is an interesting artifact, and there has to be an explanation somewhere.
Best
Gsu
 
Hi Gus
Its a strange one :? You dont go with the mine theory then? I would love to find some info on this. Is there anybody else out there that can help. At the moment I feel like ](*,)

Andy
 
Hey Andy, I have no clue, I am on the other side of the brick wall banging my head too:) Maybe mine (actually it is yours not mine), but I can not see how it would work, and it does look factory made.
Best
Gus
 
Its very similar to a lebel, but for 2 reasons its different.

1. Its steel
2. It has an extra shoulder.

Heres a comparison pic, very similar in size and for a while I thought it was a lebel bullet head in there. Sadly I cant remove the bullet and Im not going to try, but from examining the inner end with a torch, you can see it dosnt boat tail like a lebel and it dosnt have the stamp on the bottom. I cant get a picture to show this as the camera wont fit inside and my attempts with a mirror just failed!!

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Its an easy mistake Keith, it does look like a lebel round, or atleast the top end of one. Turk, why would they need to cause a cascade event with a bullet? It would be so much easier to just tie the fuse lines to a trip wire than line them up. Anyway Im pretty sure it wouldnt go bang if you shot it, you find plenty of m15/17 cans that have been hit by shell shards without detonating. Im sure the troops in the trenches would have seen this and realised it.
Is there nobody out there that can give an idea about this?
 
I can see that, I hadnt even thought about a booby trap for abandoned positions. Still not sure about using it to detonate a larger charge, but that bullet head bouncing off the walls of a dugout could do a lot of damage.
Off to google ww1 german booby traps!!
 
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