1915 Pickelhaube questions.

[morel5000]

Hello All,

A friend of mine bought a 1915 pickelhaube with some unanswered questions. He is still in the position to return the helmet, and there are some details on the haube we have some doubts about:

two military stamps are visible:
1) FAR10: Preußisches Niedersächsisches Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr.10
2) JR180: Württembergisches Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.180

The helmet has double holes; is it possible or even plausible that a Württemberg helmet (or soldier) has been transfered to a Prussian division (from Fußartillerie to Reserve-Infanterie)?

The spike is a repro (no doubts there), should a replacement be an artillery ball, as it is a Fußartillerie helmet?

The plate has been checked and has "dust" behind it and as much detail front as back.

Thanks in advance,

Michel

 

[joerookery]

Michel,

1) FAR10: Preußisches Niedersächsisches Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr.10
2) JR180: Württembergisches Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr.180

I am not so sure that is JR 180. Our example one has a very stylized letter J. While this is not conclusive in any way it would certainly reinforce the idea that it was JR 180 if they were similar. Looking at your picture, it seems to be JR 130. At least that is my interpretation. The two different marks, could mean several things. It could be an old shell that was reworked for JR 130 with the old stamp remaining in the crown. It could be that the rear visor was reattached in place of a missing one with another units mark on it. Both theories are not helped by the fact that the units were in different corps.

The double holes might be legitimate as the helmet moved from the artillery to the infantry but it is not convincing. I would pass on the doubles on this one. It would be much more convincing if they were filled by the depot. Either way, you will be explaining the plausibility of this helmet till the cows come home. I would pass on this example, but that is just me.

These helmets were often worn without spikes. However, they are seldom displayed without spikes.

We have neither of these marks on our lists. Therefore, I would ask permission to add your pictures to our list. We do not have an example of JR 130 at all. And we do not have an ink example other FAR 10. May I add them?

 

[morel5000]

Thanks Joe for your explanation. Judging from the photo I also gave the 130 a thought. When I had the helmet in my hand I was convinced it was 180. I will ask my friend to make a non-flashlight outside photo of the mark, which I will post when I get it.

You can add the photos, no problem. So the marks are OK?

On my schutzmann helmet the double holes are filled with brass fittings. Can this also be done with leather (as I recently saw a helmet like that)?

Regards, Michel

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

// two military stamps are visible:
1) FAR10: Preußisches Niedersächsisches Fußartillerie-Regiment Nr.10

Hi Michel,

FAR stands for Feldartillerie (Field Artillery). Fußartillerie is typically marked AF + number (Artillerie der Fuß).

You said: "is it possible or even plausible that a Württemberg helmet (or soldier) has been transfered to a Prussian division". Unit markings tell the story of the helmet, which was just a piece of equipment. So don't think 'soldier' think "helmet' when it comes to markings. And yes it is possible, as when helmets were repaired, they could be sent anywhere after, which is why you get conflicting Armee-Korps markings, infantry and artillery marks on the same helmet, and double holes. Personally, I love helmets like this!

 

[joerookery]

So the marks are OK?

Well no one ever made me all knowing on marks. I am just a guy that has been making the calls as Dave Mosher would say. The marks look okay to me. But I do not like the holes. Plausible yes explainable yes, but not for me.

The depot fixes that I have seen have all been done with leather.

This is a perfect example of a helmet that Tony loves that I do not like. In both cases, the collector makes the call and collects what he or she likes. I for one am all excited about the new Asian filz helmet and many people will not like it! Sometimes you win. Sometimes you lose, and sometimes it rains. Always always better to get opinions like you are doing!

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[morel5000]

Thanks again!

I checked for the Feld artillerie 10 and it seems they used a special emblem;

FAR Nr. 10 wore a Bandeau "PENINSULA WATERLOO GÖHRDE". (from your site Tony )

so is the current plate not the correct one? Is there a M1915 emblem with the bandeau? (It is not listed in the Comparing Pre-1915 to post-1915 Pickelhauben thread).

Regards,

Michel

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

//FAR Nr. 10 wore a Bandeau "PENINSULA WATERLOO GÖHRDE". // (so is the current plate not the correct one? Is there a M1915 emblem with the bandeau? //

Well, yes and no. There was a steel M15 version of the 'PENINSULA WATERLOO GOHRDE' Bandeau, but it seems these were not often used, (or used for a very short time?) as they are very hard to find. So a line eagle Wappen seems to be okay for these Bandeau'ed units.

 

[joerookery]

Michel,

Is there a M1915 emblem with the bandeau? (It is not listed in the Comparing Pre-1915 to post-1915 Pickelhauben thread).

Bernard sent in this example. It is in the article at:
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/M15%20Steel.html

Prior to this example, it had been undocumented so, as Tony said, quite rare. Is it plausible that the
FAR 10 plate was there and then changed to a line Prussian? -- yes. There do not seem to be any repair facility marks on it -- can you see if the rear visor was reattached?

 

[morel5000]

Sorry Joe, that I missed the article on your site.
I' ll ask for photos of the rear visor and the sewing thread.

I got the photos of the stamp, I reworked one for better readability (you can add these photos too if you like):

Reworked:

I still think it is 180 judging from the lower o of the 8.

There seems to be a third stamp, can't make anything of it (even with reworking):

Best Regards,
Michel