First off i have to say again... this is a great hobby. I'm really enjoying reading about these helmets i'm starting to narrow down what i would like to get. I was wondering if anyone could elaborate on the 1915 metal picklehaubes that were made by the utensil companys are they common? are they generally the same price range? is there any real good photos of one of them? i would think they would be rare being they were only in production for a year before the steel helmets came in. Any feed back would be appriciated.
1915 picklehaube
- Thread starter Sten
- Start date
Sten said:
Utensil companys? Personally, I love these helmets. There are generally two types, the Eisenblech (tin plate) and the Stahlblech (steel). Give THIS a look, it will give you a rough overview. I think a few of us have examples. As you can guess, they can be expensive compared to the leather equivilant.
MORE PHOTOS
MORE PHOTOS
MORE PHOTOS
Outstanding pictures, Thank You...i think i really like these also. I figured they would be more expensive. I'm going to keep searching for one....I had read that the import of leather became a problem once the war started so kitchen wares companies started to produce the metal helmets but your not going to have me dig thru my web history again to find the quote are you.
i think it was on trenches on the web. Hey what do i know i'm haubless...I have a question , my adrian helmet has the crossed cannons with the bomb w/flames coming out of it and an RF on the bomb do you know if it is WW1 or after i have not been able to find an answer. I have seen the solo bomb but no the crossed cannons .BTW the latest military history mag ran a small article on the last WW1 vet Frank Buckles. He lives in Charles Town West Virginia he is 107. interesting article.
i think it was on trenches on the web. Hey what do i know i'm haubless...I have a question , my adrian helmet has the crossed cannons with the bomb w/flames coming out of it and an RF on the bomb do you know if it is WW1 or after i have not been able to find an answer. I have seen the solo bomb but no the crossed cannons .BTW the latest military history mag ran a small article on the last WW1 vet Frank Buckles. He lives in Charles Town West Virginia he is 107. interesting article.
Hey Sten,
Tony may not make you find the quote, but I might OK, I will not, there are many sources that claim that the Ersatz helmets were due to shortages of leather, but that is contradicted by the fact that the M1915 helmets were made of leather. The real reason, many believe< was due to the time required to form the leather helmets, the felt, tin and steel helmets could be formed in an instant, where it took a lot of time to form dry and finish the leather (OK so the felt helmets took a little time too, but not nearly as much as the leather). The ersatz helmets were made im smaller numbers than the leather M1915 helmets that were produce as late as 1918.
Now for your Adrian, It is a Artillery helmet, the WWI models were the M1915, and are made in 4 parts, two parts for the visors, one for the body and the comb, if it is made from two parts (bady and visors in one piece with the comb attached) then it is a M1926 and is WWII. The helmet with only the bomb, was infantry.
Best wishes
Gus
Tony may not make you find the quote, but I might
OK, I will not, there are many sources that claim that the Ersatz helmets were due to shortages of leather, but that is contradicted by the fact that the M1915 helmets were made of leather. The real reason, many believe< was due to the time required to form the leather helmets, the felt, tin and steel helmets could be formed in an instant, where it took a lot of time to form dry and finish the leather (OK so the felt helmets took a little time too, but not nearly as much as the leather). The ersatz helmets were made im smaller numbers than the leather M1915 helmets that were produce as late as 1918.Now for your Adrian, It is a Artillery helmet, the WWI models were the M1915, and are made in 4 parts, two parts for the visors, one for the body and the comb, if it is made from two parts (bady and visors in one piece with the comb attached) then it is a M1926 and is WWII. The helmet with only the bomb, was infantry.
Best wishes
Gus
Sten said:
Well, sort of; the real probelm was the Aug 1914 the declaration of war resulted in the mobilization of the German-speaking contingents and they could not equip millions of soldiers. There simply was not enough cow hide from Argentina or ability to make so many leather Haubes as fast as they needed them in 1914, so Ersatz (substitute) Haubes filled that gap. A lot of sites/books claim these are late war, when they are actually early war.
Oh yea, please check here before buying a helmet so you do not get a bad one, okay? T
Lost Skeleton
Well-known member
Two of mine.Tony & Kaiser said:
Chas.
joerookery
Well-known member
Sten there is an older article here:
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/ersatzarticle.htm
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/ersatzarticle.htm
I cannot belive the depth of knowalge you guys have on this subject ...you read about the Great War( i'm just finishing up a great read called Europes Last Summer) and then you take it home by the events which occured and the decisions made on what requirements were issued on basic outfitting of a troop....it really draws together what it must have been like not only as a soldier but as a factory worker who on a monday morning is retooling to fill an order which was changed the week prior. Joe that article is really interesting very informative. Chas, those haubes are great as are the ones Tony has shown, Gustaf it is a 4 part as is the Russian Adrian and i did find the source so i dont get drummed out of the forum .....Seriously you guys need to publish a book on this just take your collective web pages and put them together.
http://www.worldwar1.com/sfgph.htm
An Ersatz (Substitute) helmet, made of lacquered steel, made in early 1915. The start of the war brought on the British blockade of Germany. Leather for helmets was imported from Argentina, and the demand for helmets exhausted supplies almost immediately. Manufacturers of kitchen utensils were called on to turn out helmets of thin steel and tin. Although the helmet is steel, it offered no real protection in combat, nor did the leather helmet. All other fittings are standard 1895 model brass fittings. The helmet plate is a pre-war type and not original to the helmet. The kokades are from the 1914 era, but are not original to the helmet. The chinstrap is a modern reproduction. Collectors refer to this as a 'parts' helmet, as it is an assembly of original parts. It does not have the same value as a complete helmet with all original fittings. Other examples of this type of helmet were painted field grey, with brass or steel fittings and plates, also painted field grey.
OK here is one for you this is not from a web site or anything, this is just my curiosity ...What is the deal with Prussia how did it get its name how was it once a region and now no more, i know the area it encompases but why is it not a factor was it disbanded after WW1....thank you all again , Sten
http://www.worldwar1.com/sfgph.htm
An Ersatz (Substitute) helmet, made of lacquered steel, made in early 1915. The start of the war brought on the British blockade of Germany. Leather for helmets was imported from Argentina, and the demand for helmets exhausted supplies almost immediately. Manufacturers of kitchen utensils were called on to turn out helmets of thin steel and tin. Although the helmet is steel, it offered no real protection in combat, nor did the leather helmet. All other fittings are standard 1895 model brass fittings. The helmet plate is a pre-war type and not original to the helmet. The kokades are from the 1914 era, but are not original to the helmet. The chinstrap is a modern reproduction. Collectors refer to this as a 'parts' helmet, as it is an assembly of original parts. It does not have the same value as a complete helmet with all original fittings. Other examples of this type of helmet were painted field grey, with brass or steel fittings and plates, also painted field grey.
OK here is one for you this is not from a web site or anything, this is just my curiosity ...What is the deal with Prussia how did it get its name how was it once a region and now no more, i know the area it encompases but why is it not a factor was it disbanded after WW1....thank you all again , Sten
joerookery
Well-known member
Sten
I have several pages done on the formation of Prussia but I have no idea how it got its name! I find your last question the most interesting to me; it seems that at the peace negotiations the representation was for "Germany". As a result the individual kingdoms who had abdicated, were no longer considered entities. Quite a bit of terrain was lost at the end of the war and Prussia ceased being a separate country. I think it's a fascinating study how Prussia became dominant but it just disappeared -- isn't this research fun!
I have several pages done on the formation of Prussia but I have no idea how it got its name! I find your last question the most interesting to me; it seems that at the peace negotiations the representation was for "Germany". As a result the individual kingdoms who had abdicated, were no longer considered entities. Quite a bit of terrain was lost at the end of the war and Prussia ceased being a separate country. I think it's a fascinating study how Prussia became dominant but it just disappeared -- isn't this research fun!
Sten said:
Sten,
Preußen (Prussia) still existed up to the end of W.W.II. although only in name after 1934. Even though Preußen had absolutely nothing to do with W.W.II other than being a part of greater Germany, the Allies punished the state for some reason by dissolving it in 1947. There is a very nice little article on Preußen on Wikipedia HERE that is enjoyable. For a very good in-depth an enjoyable read on the Kingdom, I recommend "The Rise and fall of Prussia" by Sebastian Haffner ISBN 0-75380-143-4
Hey Sten,
Prussia, like the CSA does still exist, in spirit even today. There is still a great deal of Prussian pride left in Germany, to the point we had a member drop off this forum, in anger, due to the use of the word "chicken" to discribe the Prussian Eagle, eventhough the term is not used in a derogatory way.
We are all learning here too, and you may find that some of our information may change as we learn more.
Best wihses
Gus
Prussia, like the CSA does still exist, in spirit even today. There is still a great deal of Prussian pride left in Germany, to the point we had a member drop off this forum, in anger, due to the use of the word "chicken" to discribe the Prussian Eagle, eventhough the term is not used in a derogatory way.
We are all learning here too, and you may find that some of our information may change as we learn more.
Best wihses
Gus
joerookery
Well-known member
That really was a nice little article Tony! It must have been really a fascinating time. One day you're an independent country, a monarchy that was the leading voice of the German-speaking world. The next day you are a state in a socialist republic. I know that is a gross simplification but what a change!
ebay seems to be the major source of picklehaubes i'm not a real big fan of it but that is where most of them pop up. i have found a few sites which have some helmets but none of the tin or steel ersatz. i'm going to keep searching i have covered most of the army navy stores in my area and i have some friends who are going antiquing in new england and gave them a heads up. i'm sure there will be one at the SOS if i cannot find one by then ......ballpark figure of their price $800??? i'm sure it varies with condition ect...i dont know, any help would be appriciated again thanks for the info on the past replys i'm still digesting it all