19th Feld Artillery Hanger 1863

b.loree

b.loree

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Another piece from my collection that has never been shown on the forum:
What I am calling an Artillery "hanger" dated 1863 in 2 places, once on the blade near the cross guard and again on the back of the handle. The blade is engraved to the 1st Thuringishes Feld Artillery Regt 19. The reverse has the usual scenes of horses and gun crews. Black leather scabbard, with brass tip and ball. I believe the brown leather frog is an incorrect add on. If anyone can confirm this I would appreciate it. The troddel is also incorrect providing I have read my new reference book: J Sommers Imperial German Fielf Uniforms and Equipment correctly. I believe the troddel is a wartime 13 MG Kompany as shown on pg292. Again if anyone can provide pictures of other types of these or additional information.....I am here to learn. Brian

ArtyhangerFeldArty19001.jpg
ArtyhangerFeldArty19003.jpg

ArtyhangerFeldArty19004.jpg
 
Brian,
I believe that there may be another error in Jhan's book, the 13th MGK should be white, blue, white. Green is the colour of the Jäger Kimpanies, but the slider and acorn should also be green.
Gus
 
Brian: This is a very nice example of a private purchae side arm. I believe it is actually a Seitengewehr Model 1871 and the numbers 1863 on the blade and hilt are probably assembly numbrs. The 19th Field Artillery Regiment was not raised until 1872. You are correct that the troddel is a war time 13th (machinegun)company bayonet knot. Plate 183 in Das deutsche Heer has a color chart showing the different color combinations for bayonet knots.
I agree that the brown frog is a later addition. I think your side arm would have originally had a black or white patent leather frog. Probably white as FAR 19 wore a white belt and cross strap.



Reservist1
 
Hi R1,
I am rather confussed, did they discontinue the white, red, yellow, blue order on Troddel colours during the war? All colour refferances I have seen show the 13th follows the 12th in colour combination, and I do not have Das Deutsche Heer, could you post a scan of the plate on page 183.
Best wishse
Gus
 
Gus: On my monitor the bayonet knot on Brian's atrillery piece looks white, blue, white. If that is really the color combination it should be machinegun cmpany. If it is something other than white, blue, white it is not machinegun company. I noticed in your original post to Brian that you mentioned green. If the color combination is white,green,white the knot should be NCO school, 1st company.

Reservist1
 
Joe: Thanks for posting the plate. A further note on the 1871 pattern private purchase side arms. These were available well into the 20th century. A W.K. & C. catalog circa 1905 illustrates the same basic piece that Brian posted.

Reservist1
 
Thanks for the input R1.I figured that the frog was incorrect. Gus, your monitor must be off a little because, the colour combination is as R1 states... white, blue white which is the 13MGK. The strap and tassel are a grey cloth which again indicates war time production. Brian
 
Thanks Guys, I am not as stupid as I thought, I believed that White, Blue,White was the right combination, but it looks yellow, green, yellow on my machine (and this is not the candle powered one either!), but what really bugs me is that the photo in Johan's book is a dead ringer for
Brian's Troddel (and it also looks yellow, green, yellow), needless to say, I think it is time to visit the eye doctor.
Gus
 
Brian- this is a great piece, thanks for sharing.

As you know, I was into swords before I got into the helmets, I will share some more later.

Again, a great piece

James
 
Hi Brian,
Great, I love blades! In my monitor white (soiled by age, seems yellow), blue, white (...yellow).
Otto
 
Gus:
In all fairness I think the real problem is the gas mask. I know that you like to wear it 24/7 and consequently, it has become part of you but please be aware that there is bound to be some colour distortion when one is looking through 100 year old gummie mask lenses. At the very least, lower it to the "at ready" position on your chest when using your computer! Or, as an alternative, switch to the spare lenses stashed in the gummie can lid. Wylie in your case, I think it must be the monitor, hopefully Gus is the only member that insists on wearing a gummie!! James, walk the talk and get some pictures of those "blades' on this forum!! I have another surprise blade comming up Otto. One last thing, Otto your description of the troddel colour is the best of them all. The "white is soiled by age."Regards, Brian
 
Brian,
I have the mask at the ready position, and it still looks y,g,y, although with age, I can see it. By the way, the Gummi Mask did not have spare lenses, that was the Leder maske, and they were lenses that fit inside the gas lense, they were coated with gelatin to absord the moisture from the wearer's breath to keep the lenses clear, the Gummi had fold sewn in to the mask to allow the searer to stick his finger into the fold to wipe the moisture off the lenses, the French and Belgian copies of the German Leder mansk used the same type of gelatin coated lenses too. The American SBR used a type of wax coating to prevent condensation, and the British used something else (I have not held a British anti fog kit, but from photos, it appears that it was a cream carried in a lead tube that was applied with a cloth). O have to admit that I do feel stupid on a stick after saying that this Troddel was WRONG WRONG WRONG!! And the Plate form Das Deutsche Heer is the very refferance that I was using, Maybe I better quit wearing my sun glasses at the computor.
Gus
PS I have been know to have problems with colours on the ranch, father used red ear tages, and my sister used orange. During branding, a great many of my sister's calves ended up with my father's brand on them.
 
Brian threw down the gauntlet, so I am going to go nuts with posting pictures of some of the other stuff I collect today!

Here are a cuople of my bayonets, both are full engraved or etched.

James

bay1.jpg


bay2.jpg


bay3.jpg
 
Very beautiful James. I like your blued blades better than mine. I am also going to take off the incorrect frog, it does not look right on the piece. Thank you for posting. I am off to take a look at your other baldes!! Brian
 
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