1st Nassau Infantry REgiment 87 helmet with Banner?

J.LeBrasseur

J.LeBrasseur

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Staff member
Hey guy's just picked this one up, appears to be a 1st Nassau Infantry Regiment 87 helmet with LaBelle-Alliance banner.

Now my questions are, what do you think? All referances I seen show this helmet with small EM spike, this one is tall and you can take the top off for a Trichter, shows some solder repair? Small crack in spike base.

Also, front plate is screw back type, missing one nut, but other one is there, does this look correct to you? No markings on helmet, besides a faint makers mark inside, does not appear to be messed with, no extra holes etc.

I am hoping it is legit! Ok guy's let me have it!

Thanks

James

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James:

Aside from the "repair" of the spike base, I think it is totally legit. If it really bothers you, replace your spike and base with a standard EM spike. However, I kinda like the "up-grade" spike. I had a Wurttemburg EM like that once, also totally legit.

Regards

Dave
 
I am afraid I would have concerns. This Wappen in my mind, would be a private purchase example as this Bandeau was not instituted by Imperial decree until 24 Jan 1899 so by then, the Wappens produced for issued helmets would have M95 loops on the back. This is an issued helmet with M1895 vented rear spine, so it should have M95 loops on the Wappen. Many collectors think that "upgraded" helmets are legit, as Dave mentioned, however, I must respectively disagree. Issued helmets were government property and upgrading with a private purchase spike and Wappen in my mind, especially if the helmets is not marked to IR87, indicates (in my opinion only) that it is very likely a parts helmet. Having said that, this is a very rare Wappen and I would not hesitate to buy a helmet like this if the price justified replacing the Wappen and spike to make it issued correct in order to obtain the Wappen.

I am not sure if the giving of issued caps and tunics to NCOs as per the AKO order 28 June 1873 after 6 months of wear also applied to Pickelhaubes, but I have seen no evidence of this. This, in my mind would be the only explanation for a legit upgraded issued helmet, but then it would be stamped E or Eigentum.
 
I agree with Tony's comments and would also point out that the nut soldered to the spike base is not the correct style construction for an issue screw off spike base. The proper method would be a threaded brass sleeve or nut soldered to the underside of the base.

Reservist1
 
Thanks for the feedback guy's, my guess after actually getting it in hands was a part helmet. After the inital posting, I have studied it further and loosened the string holding the liner tabs together to get a better look inside.

I found 2 more things:

back visor is size stamped 55 and has a stamp into the leather of a fancy B. or R. over a line?

On the inside I found this painted J.R. 88 I think? and 1912, see photo.

Well good news is I did not pay that much!

Thanks

James

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James LeBrasseur said:
Thanks for the feedback guy's, my guess after actually getting it in ahnds was a part helmet.
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Well, you could always put a line chicken and spike on it. I fear that you may never find a correct IR88 Wappen. So you might as well sell me the IR87 Wappen! 8-[

I failed to notice the spike base as Reservist1 mentioned. Could the top of the lower spike half be missing? When you unscrew a spike, you should see a flat surface or a blunted spike. This looks like that part is missing?
 
Many collectors think that "upgraded" helmets are legit,
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I guess I am one of those collectors. It's a hell of a good question, though. If you are assigned to a recruited class, I am sure the scrutinization of crown property would be more significant than for the professional NCO class. Of course I have no proof, but it seems as though recruited soldiers drew from the Kammer and returned the property to the Kammer. This happened, let's say every two years. The professional folks would not rotate. They could clearly cherry pick the Kammer. The question becomes, what do we mean by an upgrade? The helmet in question is clearly a parts helmet in my mind. The officer’s spike is a later add on as is evidenced by the surgery on the spike base. The wrong wappen is placed on it. But what if they had the correct wappen matched to the unit markings and simply had a voided eagle?

I agree with Tony that finding a JR88 wappen would be a serious challenge. Assuming the marks are legitimate, you have a rare shell. The spike base is an abomination and the spike top is exactly what I have been looking for. So please send it to me quickly! The wappen leaves me cold. Nothing direct I just don't like it. Posts are possible...

There were tall enlisted spikes. I am not sure that these were ever government issue.

Tony, do you have some examples of the E stamp? I have seen this before, but I am not sure how universal this was.
 
Thanks to all for the input!

The God's are on my side today! I found the correct IR88 wappen, sorry Tony I had to trade the IR87 wappen for it.

And I have the correct EM spike and base on hand!

So I will be restoring this helmet back to its original unit etc.

I will post the after pictures as soon as it is complete!

I can sleep better now!

James
 
James LeBrasseur said:
I found the correct IR88 wappen, sorry Tony I had to trade the IR87 wappen for it.
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Ah well. I am very happy for you. Sadly, an issued IR88 is a helmet I will never have in my collection. Congratulations. :thumbleft:
 
Congrats James! It is nice when something in this hauben world of ours works out for the better. I am dying to see the pics on the JR88. Re the spike shown in the pics for our beginners...officer spike because of height and the 2 rings incised around the base of the cone. In addition you can see the bright "new" silver solder applied to the neck of the spike where someone soldered on a nut on the top of the neck. New shiny solder, flux residue or even burn marks on helmet fittings especially wappen indicate "something " has been done to make parts work on a helmet that is being pieced together or at the very least repaired. Brian
 
Well done , James! what a turn up. First the helmet and then the wappen! What kind of spike will you be putting on? A two piece or a fixed unit? Did these guys actually use a removable spike and wear a parade plume? It's just that I cant seem to find any reference to it and off the top of my head I did'nt think they did, but I'm probably wrong. Again!
 
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