A mistake in my youth --- or not?

SkipperJohn

SkipperJohn

Well-known member
Many years ago I developed my beginning interest in Pickelhaube and my Dad bought me a Model 1895 Prussian. I would search antique stores with my parents and I would find a medal or a belt buckle on occasion. I found this in an antique shop in Indianapolis in 1968 (I think). In those days research was done at a place called a library and the only book on the subject was written by Colonel Rankin. I saw a photo of this helmet in Rankin's book so I saved my money and bought it. I think my parents were disappointed that I would spend money on something so frivolous, but they didn't say anything.



I kept this in my collection and never doubted it's authenticity until a devastating thing happened --- THE INTERNET! I still have this helmet but have read that this spike was never used. I'm not sure that I believe that, but I'm always open to learn. The helmet has round holes instead of slits for mounting the Wappen, and the Wappen has screw posts. The Wappen is chemically darkened brass instead of steel, and the helmet has obviously been over polished (not by me).





The liner is a typical Kurassier liner and the maker is Helbing-Sackewitz 1916.



This helmet has been taking up space in the back of a bottom shelf for a few years now. I then saw this advertisement from a well known dealer who many of you on this forum know. He says the helmet has a darkened brass Wappen from the 7th or 8th Kurassier. I began to wonder.

The link goes to photos only. You will have to open the page to see the ad:
https://www.derrittmeister.com/productpages04/04529.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am looking for input. What do you think of this helmet? Should I keep it or simply try to get rid of it on Ebay?



John :cry:
 
John ;
I would keep the helmet .
It has a story and the first helmet you bought.
Ken is a nice fellow , but I think he buys from
people he knows and he trusts what they tell me
which is not always correct .
That tag is the lug by a string .
Anyone could have placed it there at anytime .
I no longer on a feldgrau Kurassiere
so I have nothing to compare with .
Remember the photo of the pile of helmets
in Rankin 's book ?
The helmets in the early years were sold
for next to nothing . An enlisted man
G d C with eagle top was $ 125.00
By the way that Rankin book ; a friend bought
that book , loaned it to me .
I went thru it , looked at those photos
and I said this is for me , this is what I want to collect .
Thus started a 46 journey .
I made a "want list " and set out to met
Walter E. Hartmann ; Jacques Pries ; Cliff Foster
and the other collectors .
Steve
 
There are a number of these around. There has already been discussion on the use of these standard infantry spikes on JzuP helmets. I don't know if there are any new opinions about Kurassier helmets. Some members seem to think the spikes were applied when they came into the country for the bond promotions. But others believe these were issued. Either way its part of the history of the helmet. I remember getting my first basic leather Prussian helmet AND the Rankin book for Christmas in 1967. I was mezmerized for months... never got over it.

Here are two more:

http://www.greatwar.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2708352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.greatwar.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2707990" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Rankin was my first book also then Johansen. I would keep the helme, one's first helme is unique, especially one in great shape like that piece. There are lots of them around but complete liners and interior are not that common. I sold my first haube, a ratty Prussian M15 with red rot in the liner which was a reflection of what I knew about hauben when I bought it.
 
Johansson was my second book as well. I have always been thankful that I did not use any of his "restoration" techniques.

I have long thought that the M15 Kurassier helmet came with either a stove pipe type spike or a standard spike. There are just too many of them out there with a standard spike to ignore them, and they show up in older books with this spike. I have read the thread on this issue in this forum, and I'm not sure anybody ever came up with an answer.

Anyway, I was more concerned with the Wappen. This one is darkened brass instead of steel, and I wondered if anyone knew whether or not this was actually used by the 7th and 8th Kurassier on M15 helmets. I had always just figured that it was a late issue that used whatever the depot had left.

I do have a "regular" Kurassier as well:



John :)
 
I think that you are on the right track John with your last comment. I have a Stahlhelme with original chin strap...brass fittings but painted grey, a Hessen M15 with brass M91 posts, but all other fittings grey. I also have a silver fitting helme marked GFR 1890 to a OYV with evidence of grey paint behind the rays of the garde stern wappen. This helme has the older style square tipped liner fingers with correct trichter spike. There are many anomalies in this hobby and I believe that some are simply due to expediency.... it's too shiny, then paint it, it needs a spike...stick one on and get it issued and out the door. This makes sense to my mind.
 
Nacuaa said:
There are a number of these around. There has already been discussion on the use of these standard infantry spikes on JzuP helmets. I don't know if there are any new opinions about Kurassier helmets. Some members seem to think the spikes were applied when they came into the country for the bond promotions. But others believe these were issued. Either way its part of the history of the helmet. I remember getting my first basic leather Prussian helmet AND the Rankin book for Christmas in 1967. I was mezmerized for months... never got over it.

Here are two more:

http://www.greatwar.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2708352" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.greatwar.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=2707990" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Click to expand...

The links did not work, but GWM has this item...

Item No. GR04568

HELMET- SPIKED, EM KURASSIER, CIRCA 1915, SEE JOHANSSON PAGE 92, TOP LEFT. ALL ORIGINAL AND COMPLETE AS SHOWN IN THE BOOK, RATES VG-EXC, SMALL ORIGINAL WARTIME KOKARDES, PAINTED FRONT PLATE, GUN METAL SPIKE AND BASE, MAKER'S METAL PLATE FIXED TO BOLTS INSIDE THAT HOLD THE SPIKE BASE, JUST A NICE CLEAN HELMET IN SIZE ABOUT 7(LARGER IF YOU HAVE A PRUSSIAN "ROUND" HEAD). CHINSTRAP LEATHER NEEDS REPLACED, ORIGINAL HARDWARE WITH HELMET.
 
I still have every piece of militaria I've ever bought so I guess I'm in the 'keep it' camp too! :thumb up:
 
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