A Prussian Infantry officer 1907 Feldrock - IR 28

[meme32]

Dear members of the forum,

I have been recently offered this Feldrock to complete my collection.
I am already lucky enough to display a nice Infantry officer 07/10 Feldrock (with Brandeburf cuffs) and I have identified this one as being a 1907/14 Feldrock or a transtitional model ?

I must say I am always a bit confused when it comes to these variants.

The jacket looks all god to me and with a name tag.

I would be very happy to hear your opinon on that Feldrock, also any support in reading the officer name, woumd be very appreciated.

I personnaly read : Leutnant Fritz Wiemann ? 27.07.1917

Thanks a lot

 

[meme32]

 

[John Josef]

Hi, I like it. I would say you got the name correct that would be my guess as well.
I have a few questions are the buttons solid backed ? Is the piping around the collar black ? Its very hard to see. The other is about those two strips of fabric sewn into the lining that show in your third picture from the top. Do they serve a purpose? They just look out of place. and one more to start with if a may are the boards partially sewn on? I always like to have tunics on hand to really give em a going over first but with the internet age its the way of the world.
I'd think overall at first glance its is a pretty nice Private purchase tunic for a Leutnant. Thanks for posting John

 

[meme32]

Hello John

Thanks a lot for your reply and questions.
There is no piping around the collar.
Concerning those two strips of fabric sewn in the lining you have mentioned on the 3rd picture, there are sewn exactly at the slot used for sword I guess.

 

[meme32]

The boards are sewn with the classical removable way as below :

 

[argonne]

I presume, the tailor made an error in the name, because there was no Leutnant Fritz WIEMANN in the JR28 during the whole war...But a Leutnant WILLMANN. It can bee seen in the Ehrenrangliste 1914-18, page 173.

Philippe

 

[meme32]

Dear Argonne,

Many thanks for your comment and your research ! I was about to ask in the forum if someone had a database to look for !
The firstname of Leutnant Willmann was also Fritz ?
If you have any other information on Ltn Willmann, that would be great !

Thanks a lot !

 

[Glennj]

The Leutnant Willmann in Infanterie-Regiment von Goeben (2. Rheinisches) Nr. 28 was Otto Friedrich Karl, born 6 March 1895. I understand his given name was Karl but of course Fritz was a diminutive of Friedrich. However, more compelling is the date on the tunic: 27.7.17. Fähnrich Willmann was commissioned on the following day - 28.7.17, provisionally without a Patent.

Regards
Glenn

 

[Peter B]

Cool. My first pickelhaube is an M1895 from a soldier in the 28th. Musketeer Anton Jansen from the first company. Maybe they served together?

 

[meme32]

Amazing ! thanks a lot for this information !

I will add this jacket in my small collection !

 

[John Josef]

Hello John

Thanks a lot for your reply and questions.
There is no piping around the collar.
Concerning those two strips of fabric sewn in the lining you have mentioned on the 3rd picture, there are sewn exactly at the slot used for sword I guess.

View attachment 36181View attachment 36182

Thanks for the photo's, Has anyone else ever seen a war time tunic made with tailored slots for sword hangers ? I can't seem to find any in my collection, or reference to them in the regulations or a single picture of any in books I looked through I just can't remember seeing any . Those strips of material sewn to the inside of the lining just look strange. I'd guess they were added much later.

No piping on a Collar for this model of tunic also does't fit. If it were a model 15 or Bavarian 16 ok but it really should have piping. After looking closely at the collar from the inside its pretty easy to see it was replaced.


Not trying to poo poo your tunic but too may things just don't fit. Maybe I'm missing something so hopefully we can get some other opinions. Maybe special order from a tailor just made for walking out?

 

[ccj]

It’s an interesting original tunic with a replacement collar. Some regiments wore the Swedish cuffs that this tunic displays. Bavaria and, I think, Württemberg changed to Swedish cuffs during the war. I’m not sure if IR28 wore this type cuff.

It will make a nice wartime front line officer display

 

[meme32]

Thanks all for your feedbacks and reply. Would you say that the collar has been replaced post war or could it be a request from the owner ?

I will indeed use that tunic for a front line officer display !

 

[John Josef]

If possible I still have a few questions? Can you take a picture of that piece of fabric sewn into the left armpit of the tunic?

Also could you please answer my question ask in post 3 of this thread about the buttons, Thanks

Looking into a tunic is like trying to solve a case, there is a lot of things to consider. I'm interested in helping you identify this tunic, being a collector when you find something new I know its easy to get excited, but tunics don't always end up how they started. Like helmets, over a hundred years of life they change hands some Manny many times and not everyone keeps things the way they found them. Sadly people go to great lengths to deceive for profit. Its rare to have something that came directly from the family that has been left untouched in 100+ years and they command a higher premium when found.

The style of cuffs as mentioned by Charles is another thing you have to look at when trying to identify a tunic and in this case it opens up another can of worms for this "infantry" tunic. A Prussian "infantry" tunic for the 28th should have Brandenburg cuffs.

 

[Lars13]

Very interesting jacket and thread , however I find it unlikely that an officer would allow his name to be incorrectly written in his uniform. As the shoulder boards can be easily changed I don’t think they are a deciding factor. Hard to see on pictures if the field grey cloth of the cuffs is the same as the rest of the uniform, if so imo the whole uniform was probably made that way. If the cloth looks different then it might be a later alteration in case the owner changed regiment or service.
Either way, I think that it is Fritz/Friedrich Wiemann we should be looking for.
Regards,
Lars

 

[meme32]

Thanks a lot for your replies and analysis !
Please find below some additional pictures of the Jacket as requested.
The field grey cloth of the cuffs is exactly the same as the rest of the uniform.

Regards

 

[Glennj]

Either way, I think that it is Fritz/Friedrich Wiemann we should be looking for.

I agree; there were numerous Wiemanns commissioned during the war but just two with the Rufname of Fritz/Friedrich:

Leutnant d.R. (4.10.14) Fritz Wiemann, Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 7
Leutnant d.L. (16.5.17) Fritz Wiemann, Landwehr Kraftfahr-Truppen

The latter appears to be a good match as he was on the books of Landwehr-Bezirk (recruiting district) Brandenburg an der Havel and commissioned a couple of months before the date in this tunic.

Regards
Glenn

 

[meme32]

Thanks a lot Glennj ! You are the best !

 

[John Josef]

I agree; there were numerous Wiemanns commissioned during the war but just two with the Rufname of Fritz/Friedrich:

Leutnant d.R. (4.10.14) Fritz Wiemann, Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr. 7
Leutnant d.L. (16.5.17) Fritz Wiemann, Landwehr Kraftfahr-Truppen

The latter appears to be a good match as he was on the books of Landwehr-Bezirk (recruiting district) Brandenburg an der Havel and commissioned a couple of months before the date in this tunic.

Regards
Glenn

View attachment 36401

Any information on his age when he received his commission ?

It just keeps getting more interesting.

If he was a member of the Kraftfahr-Truppen that would explain the Swedish style cuffs but opens up another question, the piping on the cuffs and collar would have been black for Kraftfahr-Truppen.

I think its safe to at least say the collar was replaced which is not a big deal that happened often and it could have been replaced in the field with what the tailor had (possibly explaining no piping). I'd think its also safe to say the boards were added to make it represent a Prussian Leutnant in the 28. Infantry too many things just don't fit for that to still be possible.

I'd also think that the buttons are wrong (replaced) for an officers tunic. Most private purchase tunics made for officers would have had solid backed buttons which would have been the quality they paid for.

Its always worth looking into all the parts of a tunic to see just what you have, over a hundred years they can change hands several times. You rarely find textbook tunics that were not messed with unless they come from the family and that just doesn't happen to often these days.

I've got a really nice Bavarian tunic from an officer in the Kraftfahr-Truppen that someone cut the boards out/off. Why would someone do that ? Its because they had the same color backing as Pilots boards and it would be easy to add the little propeller devices and sell them for much more money. Its depressing at least to me to think how something could survive two world wars unscathed only to be destroyed by some fool. But sadly it happens a lot.