A Tale of Two Bavarians

[Larmo]

Hi Guys

This is my first attempt at placing an image and text on the site so I hope this works out and I apologise for an awkward beginning.

I thought it might be interesting to show two original images of Bavarian Infantrymen circa the Franco-German War of 1870-1871. The original images are CDV size, that is about 2x4 inches overall.

The first gentlemen is one that you have met before, Joe was kind enough to list him for me previously on the site. It shows quite nicely a typical Infantryman of the day armed with the 1867 pattern Podewils Rifle. A modified muzzleloader now percussion fired breechloader, which was modified after the rough handling of the Bavarian troops by the Prussian Needle Gun in the Austro-Prussian War of 1866. It was the weapon that most of the Bavarian Infantry carried into battle against the French armed with the M1866 Chassepot Rifle. The Chassepot was a superb rifle for its day and had a range advantage of nearly three to one to the Podewils. Regardless of its shortcomings, the Podewils rifle saw the Bavarian troops through the entire six month war and was carried in every battle the Bavarian soldiers fought in. Interestingly this man wears on his chest the medal for the 1866 war against the Prussians, now his ally and brothers in arms.

The second soldier carries the weapon they all wanted, the breechloading metallic cartridge, M1869 Werder rifle. The Werder Rifle was another outstanding weapon for its time and has been described as the best infantry rifle carried by the German forces during that war. Sadly for the Bavarian soldier, only a few regiments and battalions were armed with the Werder by August 1870. However it did continue in service after the war until the adoption of the M1871 Mauser rifle. Both of these men are shown carrying full field equipment to include the metal bottomed Bavarian canteen. A side note would be a mention of their headgear, the man with the new rifle has the new helmet, whilst his comrade with the Podewils has the tried and true M1842 Raupenhelm.

 

[Robert]

Great pictures! Are you shure about the range advantage of three to one over the Podewils? Before the Austro-Prussian war the long-range accuracy of the Podewils (and the similar austrial arms with identical caliber) was the main argument for not using breechloaders. Of course, after the adaption the Podewils might have changed its characteristics.

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

This is my first attempt at placing an image and text on the site so I hope this works out and I apologise for an awkward beginning.

Well you did a great job, so now you are on a roll. Superb photos of a M1861 and M1868 Raupenhelm. The M1861 was made originally with chinscales, does it appear in the photo that he has a leather chinstrap on it? If so, an interesting modification of an early Raupenhelm by mating it with a M1868 leather chinstrap.

Both of these men are shown carrying full field equipment to include the metal bottomed Bavarian canteen.

Like this! Not many of these have survived.

 

[gregM]

Very interesting thread. A great history lesson.

 

[Larmo]

Hi Guys

Thanks for the kind words, I've learned so much on this website I wanted to try to contribute a bit. So yesterday I was playing around with the photobucket program and Yahoo! It worked, I had a big smile

As far as the range difference Chassepot/Podewils I used the figures given in the Osprey publication German Armies 1870-71 (2) Prussias Allies, page 13 where they state the rifle was sighted to 600m, but the effective range was between 200-300m. In the book Militargewehre und Pistolen der Deutschen Staaten 1800-1870 by Gotz, he states that in the July 1855 tests the 1858 muzzleloading Podewils had an 87 percent accuracy at a man size target at 375m. In the chapter dealing with the modified Podewils they illustrate 4 targets of a test conducted in July of 1866, 100-200-300-400 meters, the first two are grouped well, the third starts to spread and by the fourth the pattern opens up quite a bit. I would guess that the problem was the gas seal for the bolt. This was a problem the Prussians had with the needle gun and they attempted to rectify the situation with the Becks modification but with little success. German comptemorary accounts of the fighting mention over and over the need to close with the Chassepot in order to bring the needle gun to effective range. With its smaller caliber, modern design and 1200m effective range the Chassepot ruled the battlefield of 1870.

In my view the greatest disadvantage the soldier armed with the Podewils had was that the weapon is extremely awkward to operate. I have an 1868 in my collection and in handling it the bolt handle always gets in the way when you attempt to cock the hammer so as to place the percussion cap on the nipple to fire the thing. In a combat situation it must of been miserable.

I am no expert here and these are just my opinions but I do enjoy reading about and collecting artifacts from this era and I hope to learn more from my colleagues on this website.

Tony, thats a cool canteen, I hope someday to find one myself, but no luck so far.

Larry

 

[Robert]

Tanks for the info! I remember reading that the prussians calculated 300 Chassepot rifles to be equal to 400-500 Dreyse rifles. The match must have been a lot worse concerning the Podewils. There was a flurry for exaggering ranges back then and period statements are rarely reliable, for example the 1600m range contributed to the (later) chassepot carbine. It would be interesting to find shooting results from the anual Franko-German historic shooting contest for arms from the 1870/71 war. Allthough they might be focusing just on the Chassepot and Dreyse and I think they are limited to 300m anyway.