Advice on unit markings

chinstrap

chinstrap

Active member
Hi

As a newcomer, I'm hoping somebody can help with this. I have an 1871 model Prussian picklehaube to a One Year Volunteer. Printed label says 'Einjahrig Freiwilliger RIEGEL', with some print below, which isn't legible-maker's details? The unit stamp reads 1 L.G.R.but immediately after this last letter, but still within the stamped box, the leather has been deeply scratched, presumably to delete another digit or letter.

Can anybody help with interpreting the unit markings,please?

Thanks

Patrick
 
Hi Bruno

Photos as requested. Unit stamp is hard to photograph, but I think it's clear enough to read

Cheers

Patrick

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Hello
For me 1 LGR is for
1 Leib Grenadier Regiment Nr 8 (1. Brandenburgisches) the only to wear Leib title
But you have two problems
First the wappen is not for grenadier but infanterie
The wappen for grenadier is "old regiment eagle" (see pic)
Second: the rosace (beneath the chinstrap screw) is not for Leib grenadier
The thrue rosace for I.th and II.th bataillon wear star for III.th bataillon
hunting horn
Regards

1zp6u5h.jpg
 
Thanks Bernard

Perhaps this explains the scratching out of one part of the stamp? In other words, could the helmet have been passed on and worn by somebody in an infantry regiment, who partially deleted the no longer correct stamp? Just an idea!

By the way, if it is a private purchase helmet, as the label and quality would suggest ( I think) why would it have a unit stamp anyway, if not army issue?

I can feel myself getting very quickly sucked into the world of pickelhaube debate !

Patrick
 
Hi folks

Submitting a further post to flag up the questions I posed in mid November about passing helmets on, and OYV helmets with issue marks. I didn't get any responses then, so I'm hoping somebody can throw some light!

Thanks

Patrick
 
Patrick it's a good question. I think Bernard gave you the best estimate, but I do not know the dates when Grenadier Regiment eight started using their specialized helmet insignia but I'm sure it can be looked up. Another distant possibility is JR 117 or its derivatives, but this too has problems.

and OYV helmets with issue marks
Click to expand...

There are some forceful opinions on the subject. Some of my thoughts and an example from Bruno's collection that is similar to yours is in this article:
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/new%20OneYearVolunteer.htm

As the one-year volunteer was supposed to buy all of his equipment, it is not clear how the one-year volunteer ended up with the issued helmet. The two possibilities seem to be that the company actually issued them some of their equipment or that the one-year volunteer was allowed to buy issue equipment for their own use. As a subset to the first idea, it is possible that issue helmets were used during reserve and Landwehr call up times for training. A soldier could then stick a personal tag into the helmet.
Click to expand...

It seems that upon mobilization one-year volunteer's were given what they did not have from unit stores. This is not regulation that I am aware of and seems to have varied a great deal. Then there seems to be the Saxon practice of selling used issue helmets. I do not know how extensive this was but it certainly makes sense.

So I think you have asked some very pertinent questions, that there are not a lot of clear answers on. Thanks for asking them. These are my opinions only.
 
Joe

Thanks for the advice and comments. Could you explain your reference to JR117, please?

Thanks

Patrick
 
Patrick,

As I said this is pretty distant, but there is a Hessian unit with a name
Infanterie-Leibregiment Großherzogin (3. Großherzoglich Hessisches) Nr.117

It would have to be the first Battalion and then there are all of the problems with a Hessian wappen. But it is distantly possible as a hand me down I guess.

:? :? [/code]
 
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