AGM OR Hessian Pickelhaube at Greater New Orleans Militaria Show

JohnS3rd

Well-known member
Here are some pictures of the OR Hessian Pickelhaube forum member Jeff Shrader, Advance Guard Militaria, for sale at last weekend's show.
OR Hessian Pickelhaube F.jpeg
AGM OR Hessian Pickelhaube LS.jpeg
AGM OR Hessian Pickelhaube B.jpeg
AGM OR Hessian Pickelhaube RS.jpegAGM OR Hessian Pickelhaube IS.jpegAGM OR Hessian Pickelhaube Rear Visor.jpeg
AGM OR Hessian Pickelhaube Wappen.jpeg

I am not an expert in any way, but this seems like a great pickelhaube; I wish the current situation allowed because I might have purchased it.

Here is a link to his website. https://www.advanceguardmilitaria.com/

As always, best regards,
John
 

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I would not say it is a great helmet, but it is okay. 1891 model. No clear markings. Chinscales look too long and miss the buckle. The lion plate is nice.
 
I would not say it is a great helmet, but it is okay. 1891 model. No clear markings. Chinscales look too long and miss the buckle. The lion plate is nice.
Hello Bruno,
Thank you for your learned analysis of this pickelhaube. You mentioned that the chinscales were too long; is there a rule of thumb to go buy to determine if they are too long or short? Is it based upon the chinscales riding too high or low? Thanks in advance for any insight you or others can provide to FNG's such as myself to pickelhaube collecting.
Best regards,
John
 
I saw the helmet at MAX as well, and I have to say I was also tempted to buy it.

Perhaps I'll see it tomorrow as I expect Jeff and Anna to be at the OVMS show in Wilmington, Ohio.
 
The issue really is, that the helmet being discussed should have a leather M91 strap. But everyone prefers M91 chinscales which is how most end up on helmets. As for fit, those would sit too low on the visor. For a helmet with M91 posts they should rest ideally just on top of the visor usually covering up a small part of the Wappen.

Below is an M1895 Hessen Leibgarde-Infanterie-Regt 115 (pre-1897) so they were entitled to wear chinscales. The thick early chinscales on older helmets like this one have sagged a bit (like most of us).

dbh62.jpg
 
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Hello Bruno,
Thank you for your learned analysis of this pickelhaube. You mentioned that the chinscales were too long; is there a rule of thumb to go buy to determine if they are too long or short? Is it based upon the chinscales riding too high or low? Thanks in advance for any insight you or others can provide to FNG's such as myself to pickelhaube collecting.
Best regards,
John
Hi John,
Chinscales should fit snugly; not too high, not too low, as Tony wrote. Indeed, these M91 scales are often replacements that do not fit. On this Hessian helmet, the left chinscale does not follow the curvature of the shell and might sit even lower on the visor if adjusted. The same applies to officer helmets. However, as Tony also mentioned, chinscales may be sagging with age; conversely, leather may have shrunk to the point that chinscales adhere to the helmet tightly and can be hardly opened. Below are just a few random examples - both enlisted and officers' - where chinscales are undoubtedly original to the helmet, and show a correct fit.
L1050060_zpsff9f6940.jpgL1061013 (2016_06_09 15_02_06 UTC).JPGL1000089.JPGL1040019.JPG
L1062073_zps7votxpgb.jpgL1062093_zps3epybikh.jpg
 
Bruno and Tony,
Thank you very much for explaining how chinscales should sit on a pickelhaube and metalhelme. When comparing your examples to the one, I posted it makes sense. However, after seeing your examples of the correct way a helmet should look, I will develop a pattern to examine a pickelhaube to find flaws and mistakes. Such a system will assist me in analyzing items at shows and online.

Back in another lifetime, when I was an aspiring Army Jumpmaster, I was taught to know the correct way a paratrooper wore a parachute and equipment. The instructors taught us to develop a systematic examination pattern of examining the soldier and his gear for safety flaws. For example, I followed the pattern of top to bottom of a jumper, followed the static line from to rear, and repeated top to bottom examination, the jumper's back and sides. This systematic approach quickly identified what was wrong with a trooper's parachute, helmet, weapons, etc.; such a pattern will assist me in the future.

Thank you for providing me with examples of the correct way pickelhaube should look.

Best regards,
John
 
John, I am sure that if you apply the same scrutiny to spike helmets as to paratrooper gear, you'll be safe.
Here is for a direct comparison with the helmet from the New Orleans show. Curved chinscales are regulation on this model:

L1050872.JPGL1050878.JPG
 
Bruno
This is really a fantastic helmet inside and ou. Thank you for showing me what is right on a similar Pickelhaube.
Best regards
John
 
Because we are now in the Train :)

Pomeranian TB2 (Altdamm / Stettin). Chinscales are also original to helmet, although a little bit that tightly.


train.JPGtrain1.JPGtrain3.JPGtrain5.JPGtrain7.JPG

However, I am wondering if we may be so strict with an absolutely exact position of chinscales on helmets :unsure: When you are looking at period picts, you can see how extremly different can be the human morphology, even for the size or length of a human head...There are very smal and round faces but also very long and thin ones...

tall.jpg

Philippe
;)
 
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You are right Philippe, but I think to compensate these differences the chin scales got the long leather straps.
According the dress code the chin scales have to sit firmly on the seam of the front visor when turned up.

Source: „Bekleidungsvorschrift für Offiziere und Sanitätsoffiziere des kgl. Preußischen Heeres“ from 1896
4DD6AD7C-0155-45D4-86A1-D052DE49E357.jpeg
 
Interesting discussion with a great deal of valuable information. In my experience doing restorations, which often involves officer helmets with scales, I count scales plus end fittings. So for example, I am presently working on a very valuable artillery officer helmet where one scale is a 13+fitting and the other is a 16+, so obviously, something doesn’t add up. This discrepancy was not obvious when you just look at the helmet and it’s rare wappen. The 13 was an add on. Thus, my contribution to the discussion is.....also count the scales. I will state the obvious...the larger the helmet/head, more scales have to be added to meet position regulations. At the same time, the thin leather straps with buckle allows for different lengths of faces. Last, do not ignore the chin scale rosettes which fasten the scales to the shell, they also should match. Again, using my example above, not only did the scales not match, the rosettes were also different. These often ignored helmet fittings have dozens of subtle variations involving size, shape, designs, curvature etc. For example, a member recently needed one to complete his helmet which had come with only one scale and rosette I had 6 singles to try and match, James had 15+ and we still couldn’t get an exact replacement. We had to go for a piece which was almost the same as the original.
 
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The dress code above also defines that the scales must not go under the chin and that they have to lie flat against the side of the face (see c, below the yellow marking). That means that the closing mechanism of the scales was just to hold the chin scales when turned up.
 
One of the things I look for on scales, is the buckle used. Reproduction straps usually have a buckle that is much larger than the originals. A missing buckle (to me) is a give away that the strap is a replacement.
Here is one of my enlisted helmets with scales (AR70)70FARfront_zps18c37546.jpg
 
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