Army Museum Brussels-BELGIUM

Khukri

Well-known member
I went to the Army Museum in Brussels today:



I thought this would be special: Of course It's possible that this one has been posted earlier:


The arrow showing the direction of the bullet.
And some other nice stuff !
High



Low



High


Low


High



Low


And of course:


And the last one (for the bone collectors)



Rgds,
Khukri
 
Ahh. Wonderful. Many of the guys here have posted photos of this display, but they are always different and I always enjoy them. Excellent photos. Thank you!
 
Another pierced helmet:

Museum of Fort de La Pompelle near REIMS in FRANCE.




JR 92: What's wrong with the skull ....????
 
JR92: I just read the "Galvano" topic:

I have my doubts that this museum would have a Pickelhaube with a fake
"Galvano" Wappen (e.g. Kammerbulle) on display.
Or was-in those days- the Galvano stuff a cheaper version ?

Be so kind and tell me all about it ?

Thank you !
Khukri
 
Khukri said:
// I have my doubts that this museum would have a Pickelhaube with a fake "Galvano" Wappen (e.g. Kammerbulle) on display. //

Not knowingly. Jean-Pierre is correct; the IR92 officer's Totenkopf you posted a photo of is absolutely not an original. There are a few explanations, the item was donated to the museum, or the worse scenario, is that someone at the museum removed an original and replaced it with a fake. This unfortunately is very common, some scumbag at the Canadian War Museum some time back was arrested for doing this. I have seen many fakes in museums on display, and would not doubt that is how they got there.
 
This strikes me like lightning.
And I'm P***** off about this !

JR92 and Tony: it was by NO means my intention to question your expertise !
First thing I'll do is contact the museum and ask for their explanation !
Thank you,
Francis
'Khukri'

ps: I hope they answer....
 
This strikes me like lightning.
And I'm P***** off about this !

Francis, don't be angry! I completely agree that the skull looks very bad. As Jean-Pierre said the bubbles are a very bad sign. And Tony is dead right about museums. Our premier museum in the United States -- the Smithsonian -- has also displayed fakes unknowingly. The only thing I would caution is a trap I have fallen into myself-one that goes like -- this one is original therefore, all originals look like this one. It just is not true, but it is certainly easy to slip into when considering reproductions and fakes. The medal collectors have long experience with this and recognize that there are two sides to the coin. First you could disqualify a genuine article as fake, because it does not look like one original example that is generally accepted by everyone. Second, if a fake article gains a foothold of people approving its originality, over time, it becomes accepted as an original. Some collectors are hesitant even to venture an opinion, because they are not sure -- not positive -- so silence becomes a foot hold of approval even though the intent was to remain silent and withhold approval. I find it very interesting to read what experienced medal collectors say even though I don't collect medals.
Similar to medals many parts of the pickelhaube were produced by different craftsmen that produced different nuances. You get some pretty humorous responses about that. On the one hand, you get those who say absolutely not there were very strict standards, and there was no variance. In the next breath, they point to differences by manufacturers as a matter of pride. In the pickelhaube world I do not think we are very well educated or informed about what the differences were. Medal collectors seem to have this down to a science, but then they disagree. I think the reason why we are so ill informed is that there was a wide range of differences, and we don't even know who all of the manufacturers were let alone in what way they differed. Then as you are trying to determine the differences someone comes along with a fake. And fakes are getting better all the time. This makes things very very difficult for experienced collectors like Tony and Jean-Pierre. People pound on them for opinions and if they make a mistake or are just plain fooled then suddenly the fake has a foothold established. Then it becomes really ratty -- Jean-Pierre said…… it could take the wind out of their sails and make them gun shy. Frankly I think we are blessed when these guys give opinions. Even though they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. It is especially sad when someone personalizes the error and disparages the source as a person rather than criticizing the idea alone.
In November 2005 I wrote an article about wappen differences. http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Runninghorse.htm
While this is an extreme example that is easily identifiable the same thing applies to the skull. Using that as an example, helmets with a skull came in three versions according to the Neumann catalog. A lower quality, a higher-quality, and one with a real silver skull. The DOV catalog has a split along, real silver and nickel Silver lines. Wunderlich has what appears to be only one choice but it is 25% cheaper! Why? Was there some sort of difference in the skull? We don't even know for the most part, who produced specific examples. And while it is good to identify trends in good originals -- such as the sharpness of detail -- I think it is a trap to think they are all the same. Individual producers received Probe approval from the War Minister. This was far from standard. Just take a quick look at metal helmets produced by Lachmann that are significantly different in shape than other producers. And then some scum ball throws a fake at you and tries to fool you. I will get off my soapbox now and have some more coffee.

8-) 8-)
 
Hello,

I had readen your very good article about Running Horses.
Sure, they are differents.
But all well made.
It is for me unbelievable, an officer could wear a so ill-made Totenkopf, cheap or not. No troop Totenkopf looks so bad !


\:D/ \:D/ \:D/
 
Sorry for my "P*****" expression:
It was by no means my reaction to the reactions of the people who discovered this "Fake".
It is my reaction to the fact that I feel "framed" by this fake in an exhibition-in a top museum.
Sorry again!

Gentlemen,

A kind and prompt responce from
Dr Pierre Lierneux

Expertisecentrum

Dept III

Koninklijk Museum van het Leger en de Krijgsgeschiedenis

Jubelpark 3

1000 Brussel

A translation of his answer:
Quote"I received your mail. I would assure you that the Wappen is most certainly a "fake":
It's a purchase that dates back to the 1950's and was initialy NOT on display ON the helmet. I think that the manipulation dates to the years 1978-1979 for an exhibition in our Museum"

"The collections listing has to be checked"

"I'd like to thank you for the remark and hope to find a sollution as soon as possible."Unquote

This was the translation of the mail I received.
To put things right: I did mention that it was thanks to you that this was discovered !!!

Thank you guys to act this fast.
And for your awesome expertise !
Respectfully,

Regards,
Francis
'Khukri"
 
Hello,

:D :D :D :D

Game Over !

If you received the answer in French, I should like to read it in "original version".



\:D/ \:D/ \:D/
 
Hello JR92,

Sorry:
but....it's in Dutch !!! I assure you I translated the mail as good as I could:

I can think of what happened in "La Pompelle": I would like to know all about it (per PM ?) (and in French if you wish) (I have to tell you in advance; my French isn't that good!)
I do have some pictures of the helmets of "La Pompelle" but I don't have Larcades book.
Do you have comparison pictures of this helmets....???
(The book-La Pompelle)
If I'm not wrong: Mr Friesé owned the collection of "Fort de la Pompelle"...
Correct ?
Regards,
Khukri
 
Last edited:
Hello,

Sure, Mr Friese was the owner of that collection.

I think I shall find photos, to play a "little differences" game. But I need some days.
 
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