joerookery
Well-known member
Number two today from Colonel Ron.
Otto, Max, Gus. You are going to need a bigger truck.
Otto, Max, Gus. You are going to need a bigger truck.
Artillery generals helmet
- Thread starter joerookery
- Start date
colonelron
New member
I like this helmet because of the earlier eagle and that it is of a large enough size to fit me. Again, the only difference between this and a 1st garde dragoon helmet is the ball top versus the spike.
Ron
Ron
joerookery
Well-known member
Ron there was some discussion on the old forum about the kind of eagle plates. If you look at the left-hand of the eagle. There is an eagle on top of this stick. This we called chicken on a stick. Grenadier plates tend to have an avocado or a pineapple. However, they seem to be mixed and matched you have any insight to this?
colonelron
New member
Joe, all of my garde and dragoon plates have chickens on their sticks. I no longer have any grenadier helmets to check and can not seem to find pictures of my loses to check.
Ron
Ron
dave mosher
Active member
I think this is when I started my first thread on the "old" forum. As far as I know, all guard eagles (incl cavalry) used the chicken on a stick. Now, it is my contention (here we go...) that all later model wide-wing grenadier plates were "supposed" to use the pineapple on a stick EXCEPT for D.R.1 (in gilt) and D.R.3 (in silver), which were "supposed" to use a wide-wing grenadier plate WITH a chicken on a stick. I am sure that this little nuiance was disregarded as lack of awareness and/or frugality dictated using the standard pineapple grenadier wappen for both regiments (although DR3 would have to be silver plated). Just my thoughts...
Dave
Dave
joerookery
Well-known member
It's a fun topic I have yet to delve into.
disregarding bandeaux and guard stars, is the difference the end of the stick and the hilt of the sword? Is there some other easy way to identify the difference between the two? The reason I ask is because one reference that was contemporary described the wide wing grenadier plate as a guard plate without the star.
dave mosher
Active member
Joe:
I think it is based solely on the end of the stick (pineapple vs chicken), and based on what I can see, the scepter is identical up to the end where the pineapple or chicken starts. I have seen both the "bow-tie" and "curly-cue" hilts interchangeably for the grenadier plate with the pineapple, and I don't really see any revealation there. However, I have never seen a grenadier plate with a chicken AND a curly-cue hilt. It doesn't mean that there some may be out there. Another observation; the grenadier chicken on a stick seems to be considerably smaller than the chicken on guard plates...
Now, my last thought; is it coinsidence that ALL of the other Prussian non- guard cavalry units with wide wings have a chicken on a stick? Think about it; all line dragoons and UR 7(post 1913). I think it is the logical explaination for the "chicken on a stick" grenadier plate. They were made specifically for DR1 and DR3; wide-winged cavalry units.
Hopefully, this is something that "makes you say hmmm"
Dave
I think it is based solely on the end of the stick (pineapple vs chicken), and based on what I can see, the scepter is identical up to the end where the pineapple or chicken starts. I have seen both the "bow-tie" and "curly-cue" hilts interchangeably for the grenadier plate with the pineapple, and I don't really see any revealation there. However, I have never seen a grenadier plate with a chicken AND a curly-cue hilt. It doesn't mean that there some may be out there. Another observation; the grenadier chicken on a stick seems to be considerably smaller than the chicken on guard plates...
Now, my last thought; is it coinsidence that ALL of the other Prussian non- guard cavalry units with wide wings have a chicken on a stick? Think about it; all line dragoons and UR 7(post 1913). I think it is the logical explaination for the "chicken on a stick" grenadier plate. They were made specifically for DR1 and DR3; wide-winged cavalry units.
Hopefully, this is something that "makes you say hmmm"
Dave
A
Anonymous
Guest
dave mosher said:
Hi Dave:
How about a Regiment zu Fuß?
Chas.
dave mosher
Active member
Chas:
Not guard but grenadier plates with the chicken. Like the grenadier plate with a pineapple, I think the bow-tie and curly-cue hilts are found fairly mixed on guard plates.
Dave
Not guard but grenadier plates with the chicken. Like the grenadier plate with a pineapple, I think the bow-tie and curly-cue hilts are found fairly mixed on guard plates.
Dave
A
Anonymous
Guest
Oh! I see.
Chas. :lol:
Chas. :lol:
dave mosher
Active member
Chas
I don't have access to my pictures and collection (Florida is nice right now) but if you have Randy's CD of pictures that came with his book, look at DSCN1058 thru DSCN1061 and you will see what I'm trying to describe.
Dave
I don't have access to my pictures and collection (Florida is nice right now) but if you have Randy's CD of pictures that came with his book, look at DSCN1058 thru DSCN1061 and you will see what I'm trying to describe.
Dave
A
Anonymous
Guest
Hi Dave:
I purchased my copy from Amazon, and didn't get the CD. However, I know exactly what you mean. I was just engaging in a bit of mindless sport (yeah, right you say).
As for my Garde RzF/Fusilier helmet, the chicken and scroll hilt combination is still problematic. I have only seen one other and it was gilt.
Chas.
I purchased my copy from Amazon, and didn't get the CD. However, I know exactly what you mean. I was just engaging in a bit of mindless sport (yeah, right you say).
As for my Garde RzF/Fusilier helmet, the chicken and scroll hilt combination is still problematic. I have only seen one other and it was gilt.
Chas.
dave mosher
Active member
Remember Chas:
A "mindless sport" is a terrible thing to waste....
By the way, the more I think about it, curly-cue hilts on guard wappens are fairly rare. I'm not sure to to make of it either.
Dave
A "mindless sport" is a terrible thing to waste....
By the way, the more I think about it, curly-cue hilts on guard wappens are fairly rare. I'm not sure to to make of it either.
Dave
dave mosher said:
Personally, I have never seen a curly-cue hilt on a Garde Wappen except for the one Chas owns. Here is the standard issued Grenadier Chicken to compare with pineapple on a stick and curly-cue hilt.
A
Anonymous
Guest
I hope appropriating the Militaria-Online.de picture doesn't pose an infraction, but this is the only Wappen configured like mine I have encountered to date.
Chas.
Chas.
dave mosher
Active member
Interesting to note that both are reservists w/o bandeaus....
A
Anonymous
Guest
Perhaps this design was reserve de rigueur. Weird that it hasn't been documented in the references.
Chas.
Chas.
joerookery
Well-known member
Not compulsory for landwehr... no answers here.
Krinkle has the following diagrams for guard and then grenadier:
.
.
Tafel 149 has this:
I don't see anything separate for the first Dragoon Regiment.
Hmmmmmmm......
Krinkle has the following diagrams for guard and then grenadier:
Tafel 149 has this:
I don't see anything separate for the first Dragoon Regiment.
Hmmmmmmm......