Baden haube- what is the verdict...

M

morel5000

Member
Hi All,

recently posted in this thread are obvious fakes:

http://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=8683" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I wanted to know if the wappen where cast from an original or not. That question isn't just coincidence as I have a pickelhaube with just the same one.

Question is, is it a repro?
The chinstrap is very suspect, I added both repro kokarden.

here is my assessment of the helmet:

+ The overall form is not off if compared to other pickelhaubes I own;
+ Spike isn't the obvious fake;
+ wappen has as much detail on the inside as on the outside;
+ looks well made;
+ mountings of the knopf 91 look nice;
+ square nut!

- knopf 91 do not have similar distance (one is for the 1 mm thick scales, the other for the thicker 3mm version )
- there is no hole under the vent on the rear spine;
- loops of the stitching on the inside near the knopf mounting;
- wappen looks the same as in the other thread and has sloppy letters.

Anyway what are your thoughts?

Thanks,
Michel

4k81.jpg

gvgz.jpg

l2m0.jpg

jv0i.jpg

5cmy.jpg

awa4.jpg

xpgs.jpg


3x48.jpg

h6fz.jpg


i2v6.jpg


6wd4.jpg

b2cq.jpg

mtid.jpg

pjva.jpg

iwvc.jpg

uj0g.jpg

48jy.jpg
 
Hi Joe,

thanks for answering. I photographed the spike next to a 100% original one which came out Verdun.
Apart from the fact that the cone doesn't come of I don't see that much difference in shape.

ayno.jpg


Best regards,
Michel
 
No offence, but this is another one that came possibly from our eastern "friends"... I hope you can see the different shape of the spike, helmet plate, liner, chinstrap, kokarden... in fact the entire thing is made to trick collectors. When you put all together, every part is wrong.
I would suggest to have a look at the helmets shown on this magnifficent forum and maybe you can buy some good reference books and study the helmets in every detail. The money for those books will be spent well, as you will recognize fakes much easier and those fakers will never again "steal" your money...

Adler
 
First thanks for all the opinions, it is never fun to have a fake item.

I do have reference books ;) and I was fooled, no offense taken (except a little bit maybe but that will disappear with a Rochefort 8). I have it over two years in the collection and didn't post it because of the "what if". You know the voice back in the head that keeps saying "but the letters" etc.. So I didn't post until now.

It sure did fool me (apart from the chinstrap and the kokarden (which I replaced and painted myself :wink: )).

Best regards,
Michel
 
I was fooled
Click to expand...

Me too. Not by this but by a 94th helmet several years ago. I swallow the hook, the bait – and the whole story. A fellow collector stopped me from pulling the trigger just in the nick of time. I was totally fooled. :(
 
This looks very similar to a type of replica currently available in the UK:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Baden-Other-Ranks-Pickelhaube-Helmet-/111236652230?nma=true&si=NR7EByjwVJT%252B02t75RaELqItvls%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

These have the leather turned the correct way (flesh side out), but the shellac is applied very thickly and obscures the stitching. The metal parts have poor details. The liners generally have far too many tongues and the visor edge typically juts past the trim rivets.

This style is passed off fairly frequently on eBay USA as original, but as noted in the previous posts, comparison to a known original and/or a decent photo in a trusted source makes identification fairly straightforward.

I fell for a bogus Leib Hussar skull and a fake IR 92 skull around 1999 or so. Live and learn. :oops:
 
We have all been fooled by such reproductions in the past, few collectors have not, so there is no shame in this. We have to accept this as part of our collector learning process. A year ago, I had no knowledge of how to spot good galvano brass wappen. I got sucked in on a Wurtt OR's helme...nicely marked and totally original except....for the wappen! Its been in my collection for over 10 years. So, live and learn, and I damn well know how to spot them now!!
 
b.loree said:
We have all been fooled by such reproductions in the past, few collectors have not, so there is no shame in this. We have to accept this as part of our collector learning process. A year ago, I had no knowledge of how to spot good galvano brass wappen. I got sucked in on a Wurtt OR's helme...nicely marked and totally original except....for the wappen! Its been in my collection for over 10 years. So, live and learn, and I damn well know how to spot them now!!
Click to expand...

Amen to that. Keep it, it can be a handy form for an Ueberzug. (cover)

:D Ron
 
A year ago, I had no knowledge of how to spot good galvano brass wappen.
Click to expand...

You know what we need – a really good side-by-side photo comparison that we can post as a sticky to help other collectors. I mean a threadlike "how to spot Wappen copies."

Brad you may have the pictures?? :-k :-k :?: :?:
 
joerookery said:
A year ago, I had no knowledge of how to spot good galvano brass wappen.
Click to expand...

You know what we need – a really good side-by-side photo comparison that we can post as a sticky to help other collectors. I mean a threadlike "how to spot Wappen copies."

Brad you may have the pictures?? :-k :-k :?: :?:
Click to expand...

If the front is all that is visible, it can be tricky sometimes:
http://spikehelmets.pl/index.php?page=plates" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; shows some pretty nice examples.

The edges of copper copies often show evidence of grinding, rather than the smooth edges produced in the die stamping process.
The fronts of copper plates sometimes show tiny nodules due to air bubbles in the molding process.

The backs typically show bubbling and lack the "negative" or "mirror image" seen in originals. The attaching devices (posts or loops) are often the wrong shape/size.

I'll try to scare up some pictures.
 
If we get some pictures then you should start a new thread in the pickelhaube's area. That way people can pile on after the original photo/discussion. I can make in a sticky if you put it in pickelhaube's.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW1-German-spike-helmet-badge-from-Baden-repro-brass-/291076944680?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c589b328" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The link above is to an auction for a stamped brass plate. It has brass tabs on the back and the details on the front are not as sharp as an original, but it's going to be tougher to detect these as bogus in a few years.
 
pointystuff said:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW1-German-spike-helmet-badge-from-Baden-repro-brass-/291076944680?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43c589b328

The link above is to an auction for a stamped brass plate. It has brass tabs on the back and the details on the front are not as sharp as an original, but it's going to be tougher to detect these as bogus in a few years.
Click to expand...

Agreed. With any luck, the manufacturers will call these 'good enough' and leave it at that. Most of them want to make replicas, not fakes. However, sometimes even now it's difficult to tell if they're good copies or originals from photos on ebay and other sites. Another reason not to bid on no-return items.

:D Ron
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top