Baden Tellermütze

[SkipperJohn]

This is my Baden Infantry Tellermütze:

The Kokarden are the private purchase type held on with bent pins.
It's in good shape showing very little wear:

The interior is good but all marks, if there were any, have been erased over time:

It makes a nice set with my Baden private purchase EM Pickelhaube:

John

 

[Lars13]

Hi John,

Nice Mütze, but when I see the missing sweatband at the front it looks more like a Schirmmütze to me, with the Schirm missing.

Lars

 

[SkipperJohn]

Hi John,

Nice Mütze, but when I see the missing sweatband at the front it looks more like a Schirmmütze to me, with the Schirm missing.

Lars

I disagree. The sweatband is almost entirely missing, with only about 4" remaining. The tears in the sweatband start far from where a Schirm would be sewn on and there is none of the stitching from a Schirm. Some of the liner stitching is also missing. The profile of the Mutze does not seem to conform to the normal profile of a Schirmmutze.
Here are some additional photos of the interior:

I am open to opinions, but I really don't think that this was ever a Schirmmutze.
What do you think?

John :?

 

[kaiser]

I know its not always the case but in a chirmutze you often find a little metal stifner to give a schirmutze its high form is there in your case any sign of sutch a metal stifner being sewn in between

Jonas

 

[SkipperJohn]

I know its not always the case but in a chirmutze you often find a little metal stifner to give a schirmutze its high form is there in your case any sign of sutch a metal stifner being sewn in between

Jonas

There is no indication that a stiffener was ever sewn in and there is no sign from the front that the piping was ever loosened to remove a Schirm.
Sometimes the front piping loosens and/or unrolls when a Schirm is taken off.
Another thing that leads me to believe that this is a Tellermutze is that the red band is so much thinner than the band on any of my Schirmmutzen. The bands on my Schirmmutzen from the same period are between 3 and 4 cm wide. The band on this Teller is only 2 cm wide. It is quite noticeable when placed side-by-side.

John :?

 

[kaiser]

I have to stay with my first observation then, in my eyes it has never been a schirmutze but regarding to the stiffener it was mearly a little hunch for it i guess

 

[SkipperJohn]

I have to stay with my first observation then, in my eyes it has never been a schirmutze but regarding to the stiffener it was mearly a little hunch for it i guess

Not a hunch --- all of my Schirmmutzen have some sort of stiffener except one. They may be metal, thick cloth, or cardboard, but usually there is something to hold the peak up.
Only one of my Mutze has a stiffener in the front, and that one is for the Navy.

John