Bavarian OR Train Batl. question

J.LeBrasseur

J.LeBrasseur

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Staff member
Guy's I recently picked up an older Bavarian OR Train Batl. helmet, not in great shape but first train batl. marked Bavarian I have seen in ages.

Anyway, when I got it, something was strange. Looking at the spike base, I saw something weird, so I took it off the helmet, and it had another weird spike base inside it? Now it fit perfectly inside the cruciform base like it was meant to be, but I have no reason for it and not sure if anyone else ahs seen this before. the helmet is good and there is an impression from the cruciform base in the shell.

the inserted cruciform base has a tube on top with weird holes in it...

thoughts??

James
 

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James,
You have come across a very interesting setup. It might be some type of reinforcement of the helmet. I look forward to what others may know or theorize about the purpose of the insert. Thanks for posting.
John
 
This is puzzling, James. As John wrote, an attempt to reinforce the helmet? It reminds us of these helmets where the rounded reinforcement plate that normally goes within the shell was placed outside under the round spike basis.
Does your helmet have a cruciform reinforcement plate inside, as it should?
From your pictures, it appears that actually both cruciform bases bear this tube with holes, which is professionnally soldered. Do holes coincide when both bases are in place?

As another hypothesis, this system would have been a weird 1915 adaptation, in the absence of a removable spike: you would remove the top basis with the spike, and end up with a spikeless Pickelhaube, that could be covered with a 1915-type Ueberzug. The top basis with the spike could be re-attached when needed. Are spike bases affixed with screws, which should make this easier?
Do not forget that Train was famous for adhering to regulations very loosely...

Whatever the explanation, as seen from the patina on the exposed surface of the inferior basis, both bases have been together for a long time, probably from WW1. I would bet this is a period combination. If I were you, I would leave both bases on the helmet...

Finally, congratulations! Bavarian Train marked enlisted helmets are indeed rare.
 
Thanks guy's!

I will answer some of the questions

1) split braid studs for attaching the spike base not screws.

2) yes there is a cruciform reinforcement plate on the inside

I will put it all back together and take pictures of it all, and I will see if the holes coincide

thanks

James
 
I am with Bruno, .....a way of converting the helmet to spikeless M15 configuration. You could accept this more easily if it was a private purchase piece but to have this added on a government issued helmet is as you say James, weird.
 
Here are some more pics and info, sorry I have the helmet taken part right now as it is filthy, I normally do not clean but it is covered in nicotine etc.

First the pearl ring spike base does not turn at all. However the spike top is removable...

Also, the holes from the inside cruciform plate do not match up with the holes on the top cruciform plate, I am talking the top part (Neck)where you see a lot holes.

The main reason I purchased this helmet was #1 it went cheap and #2 the markings for 3 T.B. 1918 so a late marking for an early helmet. there is a faint makers mark inside as well with a date that I cannot make out.

Main issue is lack of front visor trim, which was there at one time, going to be tough to find.

James
 

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Thank you James, although this does not make the interpretation any easier. The general pattern is correct for a Bavarian Train Pickelhaube, even during the war, since their helmet was the same as Chevau-Leger helmets. However, if the plate seen on picture #2 belongs to this helmet it appears to be the old model with leaves (1886), which was replaced in 1896...
Holes not matching means virtually no ventilation...
A true enigma.
 
James, I realized that the Bavarian artillery M95 helmet, which is probably identical to your Train helmet, has exactly the same tube, with rounded ventilation holes, soldered to the cruciform basis.
This is not the case for the more "modern" Chevau-Legers helmet (right)

L1040472_zps121f9cd1.jpg.
 
Bruno- thanks for letting me know, in all these years still fun to learn and see new variations etc.

James
 
Intrigued, I had to go look at my Bayern Mounted Troops helmets.

Sure enough, in a silver issued Chevaulegers helmet, there was the ‘vent tube’ thing. Wow!

82046048-DDC9-4DF4-89F5-CEE4FCD3F03C.jpeg
 
Always surprises out there. I was quite pleased over that unexpected discovery thanks to this thread.

This is the one with that tube vent thing. Which you will note also is pre-1914 with the monster Wappen. It's...HUGE!

Model 1886 Bayern Mannschaften (Other Ranks) issued Chevaulegers Pickelhaube

www.kaisersbunker.com

dbh04.jpg
 
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