Bavarian Pickelhaube for your evaluation

[JustinG]

Greetings Gentlemen,
I was referred to this specialty thread from another military collecting forum. I recently purchased what I was told was a Bavarian Officers Pickelhaube. This was apparently from a depot from Liege. I know, I know, buy the item not the story. Well, excitement got the better of me.
Anyway. I posted this and I received several different opinions. From what was passed that this might be a put together piece.
Mounted Enlisted persons with added reverse rear retaining strap (running from spike to the reverse leather rear guard piece being similar to an officer configuration. Anyway, I wanted to share some photos and get your feedback. Did I buy a very expensive piece of junk? An important piece of information is that the front plate is held on by a winged "Brad" and not the typical two loop attachment that is present on most others. There is a lot going on with this piece. It appears to have been attempted to restore and recolor. The overall feel is that this does appear to be of original components but has been messed with. I am enclosing several shots. There is no depot stamp or anything like that. It might have been stained/colored out of existence.

Thanks for your feedback and observations.

Best Regards,
JustinG

 

[Sandmann]

Hello Justin and welcome to the Forum.
It's really a shame if the first entry with us is a negative assessment, but it's important to us to be objective. For me it looks like a Bavarian M1886 Landwehr infantry helmet with M1891 sideposts and chinscales for enlisted men. If the rear last scale of the chinscales is 2,4 mm thick, it is for enlisted men. If it is 3,8 mm thick, it is a chinscale for mounted troops. However, I also think that someone has modified the helmet. You can see that the visor trimm around the front visor reaches over the rivet heads and I think the Reichs-Kokarde is a reproduction. I also doubt the Landwehr cross, as it has a bad quality and doesn‘t fit good on the Bavarian plate. Is the rear visor glued on the helmet? I can't see any threads but the quality of the photo may not high enough for me to see them. The double holes may be original, but I can’t see if and how they were closed from outside to say that. Are there double seams in the area of the side posts? If so, that would indicate a modified helmet of the time and the double holes could be authentic.
Sorry for the bad news, I hope you didn’t pay too much for the helmet
If you are looking for officer helmets, please have a look to my website. I wrote an article about the differences of enlisted men and officer helmets and how you can identify these and also an article about the evolution of Bavarian Pickelhaubes:

• https://historien-kabinett.de/Characteristics-of-officer-s-pickelhauben
• https://historien-kabinett.de/The-h...aube-in-the-royal-Bavarian-armee-and-Landwehr

 

[Amybellars]

Hi Justin
Welcome to the forum. I echo most observations that Sandmann had made. I have attached pics of my bavarian model 1866 pickelhaube. Mine is not the reserve unit so it doesn't have a cross. I reckon the cross. Mine has the wing nut system that secured the bavarian wappen to the helmet body.

Just ask questions if you have.

 

[ww1czechlegion]

Hello Justin,

The helmet you posted that started this thread has been messed with and assembled from various parts.

Can you see the very small ventilation hole inside the top center of the helmet? And can you see the additional holes inside of the helmet, clearly visible in the photos you posted here?

It is an older model helmet shell or helmet body that someone altered and placed incorrect parts on it in order to try to sell it.

Obviously it did sell, unfortunately, to an unsuspecting buyer.

I'm sorry that you purchased it. I hope you didn't have to pay very much for it. I also hope that it will be possible for you to be able to return it to the seller for a refund.

Best Wishes,

Alan

 

[JustinG]

Hi well, I got excited. Always a dangerous thing to do. I didn't purchase it for too much of a loss. €500. I greatly appreciate the quick responses though. This wasn't my first Pickelhaube. I had wanted a Bayern example for some time. Well, That is an expensive lesson but one that I apparently needed to make again. A return is out of the question. If you had this piece, would you break it down and sell the original parts? Would you leave this together? I appreciate all of your time and very detailed and thought out responses. Very much appreciated.

Best Regards,
JustinG

 

[b.loree]

Welcome Justin. I would sell the parts if it were mine and hope to recover most of my investment.