Camouflaged M17

[chinstrap]

I've always fancied a camouflaged stahlhelm, but they were either too costly, or problematic. I saw this one, which really appealed to me, and I was able to get it at a price I was very happy with. I believe it's the real thing, but I can live with it if it's not. Views, please.

Marked Si66. Chinstrap leather is stiff and brittle and the strap is distorted from being looped inside the shell. I know there are recommendations somewhere on the forum on what to use/not use to treat the leather, which I will check. Is there a name for this type of pattern-I believe there were seasonal variations?

The camo works really well-my wife hasn't spotted it yet!

Seems I can't post more than 5 photos? Sorry about the shininess-struggled with getting decent light on it.







Patrick

 

[b.loree]

I am no expert on these although I have 2 (camoed) in my collection, it looks good to me. Yours has much better and brighter colours than mine. Congrats!

 

[chinstrap]

Brian, thanks very much . Any advice on what to do with the chinstrap leather?

Patrick

 

[Amybellars]

Hi Patrick, I cannot say that I am an expert as I am still learning. I have a fair number of camo helmets. The camo paint must have the brush strokes and to be in the correct colours as stipulated in the directive issued by Chief of the General Staff of the Field Army, Erich Ludendorff in July 1918. Of cos, there are exceptional paintwork such as splotches of paint instead of the standard geometrical pattern. I cannot see the colour of your pic well, so I have decided to attached some samples of mine. Hope that helps.

 

[Amybellars]

I have also taken pics of Michael Baldwin's book which showed one of his camos. Hope you can see the brush strokes in the pics.

 

[Spiker]

A camouflage is mint when it does not shine , the shining comes over the years by too much cleaning.

I would recommend this very good book;
Helmets of the First World War: Germany, Britain & Their Allies
By Michael J. Haselgrove & Branislav Radovic

 

[chinstrap]

Amy, Ed,

Thanks for your comments. The colours conform to the directive i.e. green, yellow ochre and rust brown, although I know there were all sorts of genuine variations. The green on mine is the original colour of the shell, which has not been re-painted. Brush strokes are visible on all the added paint.

The helmet itself isn’t shiny. In fact the colours are so dull that I had to put it in a room with lots of windows, on a bright day, in order to be able to get enough light to show the colours. I need to improve my photography!

I’ll try to follow up on the reference books.

Patrick

 

[ottodog8]

I don’t get too hung up on the colors. They used what they could get. I believe paints were glossy in those days, so they flattened it when they painted the helmets. The gloss of the paint was determined by how much flattening agent they mixed into the paint, I believe they used talc or something like it. It also thickened the paint, which caused the brush marks to be so prominent. Because the flattening agent was mixed into the paint by hand, there are variations in the gloss and how visible the brush strokes are. Years ago I had a camo that had actual sand mixed into the paint (only the brown) in an attempt to dull it down. The Germans recognized the reflection problems of the stalhelm, hence helmet covers and the flocking they experimented with on some of the 1918 cut out helmets.

Regarding the helmet in the original post, it looks nice, but the apparently bright steel on the edges of the liner pins would make me give this helmet a very careful second look.

Steve

 

[pickelhauben]

I have collected camos in the past and collected over 50 of them.
Switching to spikes I have sold off the last 4 last year.
I am no expert but I have noticed somethings by looking at them.
Your helmet looks great but I see a couple of red flags .
As stated before the revits would not have shiny steel on them after 100+years there would be oxidation.
The air vent on the left side is almost covered by the ochcre paint .
These were painted over but after 100 years almost all the paint would have been worn off.
People like touching them .
The top of the helm is pristine .
Almost all of the examples I have seen had some kind of were on top .
The guys sat on them at times so they would not sit in the mud and over 100 years old when people put them down they usually place them on their crowns then turn them over.
Did you do the smell test ?
If it smells like paint it is bogus hands down.

 

[chinstrap]

Thanks for the comments. Constructive and informative, as always on this forum.

Pickelhauben. No smell of paint. There is actually a lot of wear on the top. I didn't have space for a photo of the top in the original post.



There is quite a lot of loss of ochre paint on the lug,as I think the original photos shows. Sounds like you would expect more?

Steve, there is indeed some brightness on parts of the rim of the right hand pin. However, all the internal split pins are all well oxidised?

Patrick

 

[Spiker]

My Franz is an expert on camo’s ,but he don’t wanna talk about it …

 

[b.loree]

I will have to get in on this with a couple of pics of my helmets....very interesting discussion. :thumb up:

 

[Amybellars]

Patrick go with your feeling after you have armed yourself with all the given advice. If u pretty sure it is original and you have the budget for it, then go for it.

 

[Amybellars]

Hey Brian we are still waiting for your camo pics. Are you painting them or polishing them while we wait??

 

[pickelhauben]

While we wait here were my last 2

 

[Spiker]

This is a WWI M17 ,no black stripes.

 

[chinstrap]

Thanks Ed. I think Ludendorff might have been a bit surprised to see the diversity of colours and patterns apparent in the helmets above, given his directive. Availability of materials obviously played a part, as already mentioned, but I wonder how much individual creativity was allowed/tolerated. Come to think of it, would each man have painted his own helmet, or would they have had a unit painter or painters?

Amy, I’d bought it before posting here. I like it a lot.

Patrick







Patrick

 

[Amybellars]

Congratulations Patrick.

I did guess you were having it on hand as you were able to post pic without the shine and conduct the smell test.

 

[Amybellars]

Ed, nice helmet.

 

[ottodog8]

Thanks Ed. I think Ludendorff might have been a bit surprised to see the diversity of colours and patterns apparent in the helmets above, given his directive. Availability of materials obviously played a part, as already mentioned, but I wonder how much individual creativity was allowed/tolerated. Come to think of it, would each man have painted his own helmet, or would they have had a unit painter or painters?

Amy, I’d bought it before posting here. I like it a lot


Patrick

I believe they were probably painted at the company level by a detail while they were out of the line. “You you and you come with me. I’ve got a little job for you.” A few guys would paint all the helmets in the company, probably limited by the number of paint brushes they had. That would explain the fact that there are some nearly identical helmets out there, I have seen several sets. Perhaps some of the painters were chosen because they had ability, certainly there is a huge disparity in quality among the helmets.

Steve