Cavalry swords

[Richard Houf]

Sirs, Does anyone know of a source for repro German WWI cavalry swords ?. Also was there a different sword for the different cavalry units,such as Ulans, Hussern etc ?.Also a souce for a cavalry carbine ?.
thanks,
Richard Houf

 

[pointystuff]

Hi.
The Model 1889 swords used by Uhlans and Hussars are being copied in China, but they aren't very accurate replicas, to say the least.

Herr & Nguyen's The German Cavalry 1871--1914 (Verlag, 2006)
shows the basic patterns.

The Model 1811 "Blucher" sword is being copied by several firms, although it wasn't really a first string unit item by WWI.

Sometimes there are still bargains to be had on eBay, too.
I snagged a model 1852 (without its scabbard) the other day for under $200.

Good luck,
Brad

 

[Richard Houf]

Sir,
Would a replica m1796 light cavalry sword be ok for any German WWI cavalry sword ?. Be it a Ulan, Hussar or other cavalry unit ?.Or would you suggest something better ?.
thanks,
Richard Houf

 

[seitengewehr98]

Sword issue in Germany is a bit of a mess actually. You might find the 1873 (a smaller version of the M.1811 blucher), ostensibly an artillery sword, issued to MG units, Infantry regiments, even luftschiffer abteilung markings have been found on these swords.

By WWI, the M.1811 Blucher had been handed down several times to rear echelon units. They are often found with Munitions Collumn or Supply Collumn markings. This is also true of the M.1852 and the M.1873.

The MOST correct sword for a WWI era Cavalry unit would certainly have been the issued Kavallerie Degen M.1889. If you are trying to be correct, I would suggest finding this sword.

However, finding an ISSUE KD89 (short for Kavallerie Degen M.1889) with scabbard is a little difficult (though certainly not impossible), and certainly tends to be pricey.

Here is a link to a rather beat up Bavarian issued KD89 on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/German-Bavarian-Cavalry-Officers-Sword-1892-Unit-Marked_W0QQitemZ360107770144QQihZ023QQcategoryZ156394QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This example is dated O91 (O for King Otto of Bavarian and dated 1891). The regimental markings are quite worn, but it appears to have been issued to a Chevaulagers unit, probably the 5th Chevaulagers.

It may be easier and cheaper to find an Extra Kavallerie Degen M.1889, or in other words, a dress or private purchase KD89. These are far more abundant. They aren't anywhere near as robust, made with cheaper "pot" metals generally as they weren't meant to be used in combat. Examples often have some sort of etch work on the blade, which can range from a small, basic floral etch around the Bavarian saying "In Treue Fest," to large scenes of Cavalry Charges and a scroll with the specific unit of the person who bought the sword.

What exactly are you going to do with this sword? Is it for reenactment purposes??

 

[joerookery]

O for King Otto of Bavarian and dated 1891

That is interesting! Were all of the bayonet/weapons marked for this guy and not the Regent Luitpold? I don't believe he ever did anything as King. I have read repeatedly that he didn't even know he was King.

Otto became King of Bavaria upon his older brother's death in 1886. However, Otto never truly ruled as King and was by some accounts not even aware that he had become King. Otto suffered from severe mental illness and had been declared insane in 1875. He was kept confined in Fürstenried Palace under medical supervision until his death. Otto's uncle, Prince Luitpold of Bavaria, served as Prince Regent for Otto until Luitpold's death. Luitpold's son Ludwig then became the next Prince Regent. The constitution of Bavaria was amended on 4 November 1913, to include a clause specifying that if a regency for reasons of incapacity lasted for ten years with no expectation that the King would ever be able to reign, the Regent could proclaim the end of the regency and assume the crown himself. The following day, Otto was deposed by his cousin, Prince Regent Ludwig, who then assumed the title Ludwig III. The parliament assented on 6 November, and Ludwig III took the constitutional oath on 8 November. Otto was permitted to retain his title and honours, which he did until his death in 1916.

 

[seitengewehr98]

'Tis true!!

In 1886, the cypher that appeared on the spine of Bavarian issued edged weapons was changed from L (for Ludwig II, who had is own supposed issues with mental illness) to O for Otto. But then, as you said, in 1913 when the constitution was amended, the cypher was changed back to an L for Ludwig III.

It seems much of the Bavarian monarchy could have used some prozac. Or thorazine!

Prussia, Bavaria, Saxony, and in one rare instance Wurttemburg, all used cyphers of their regents on edged weapons, and other items as well. It's one way of determining the issue of a weapon.