Doughboy helmet, British division

[Lincolnsreg]

Hi folks,

I was wondering what your opinions are of this wee feller? It's an american helmet with an American liner (AE Little, Boston), but it has the British 8th division flash painted on in leaded paint.

I bought it for a pitance about 15-20 years ago always believing it to be correct and British, until recent research suggested otherwise.

So considering it cost me half the price of a standard unmarked Brodie at the time, why would someone try and sell it on as a fake?

Basically my question is: what's the likelyhood that a Tommy picked it up as it was in better nick than his own and painted a British Divisional sign on? Has anyone else come across this? Or is there a U.S. division with the same patch?

All thoughts are welcome.
Cheers,
Dave

 

[JohnM]

Dave,

Here is some info I picked up on the net.

Known steel suppliers of the WWI British helmets:

FS = T. Firth & Sons Ltd Sept 1916 – 1918
BS = W. Beardmore & Co Ltd Jan. 1916 – 1919
HS = Hadfield Ltd Jan. 1916 – 1919
V = Vickers Ltd 1916 – 1917
MS = Miris Steel Co. Ltd 1916 – 1917
A = Edgar Allen and Co. Ltd 1916 – 1918
F = Thomas Firth and Sons 1916 – 1918
O = Samuel Osborne & Co Ltd. 1916 – 1918
B = Bury's & Co. 1916 – 1918

Known makers of the WWI British helmets:

D = James Dixon & Sons Dec. 1915
HW = Hutton & Sons Dec. 1915
HH = Harrison Bros. & Howson Ltd. Dec. 1915
M = J&J Maxfield & sons Dec. 1915
R = John Round & Sons 1916
V = W&E Viener Dec. 1915
MLS = ?
FKS = Possibly Thomas Firth & Son
M&S = Possibly Maxfield & Sons.

Known makers of the WWII British helmets:

BMB = Briggs Motor Bodies Ltd of Dagenham
F&L = Fisher & Ludlow Ltd of Birmingham
GSW DP & H = General Steel Wares Department of Pensions & Health
HELMETS LTD = Helmets Ltd of Weathhampstead
RO&Co = Rubery Owen Co Ltd of Leeds (Spelled as RO CO or RO&CO)
WD = William Dobson & Son of Birmingham
? = Patent Pulp Manufacturing Co Ltd
JSS = Joseph Sankey & Sons

Known makers of the WWII British liners:

VERO II
TTC 2
FFC II
FFL II
V.M.C II
"N" LTD II
HELMETS Ltd I (Helmets Ltd of Weathhampstead)

Known makers of the WWII Canadian helmets:

CL/C = Canadian Motor Lamp Co
AG/C = Aluminium Goods Co
GSW = General Steel Wares

Known makers of the WWII Canadian liners:

Baskstay Standard Co (Also made chinstraps)
Viceroy Manufacturing Co = C/Arrow or VMC

Known makers of WWI American helmets:

Edward G. Budd Manufacturing Co. 1,150,775 made
Sparks, Withington Co. 473,469 made
Crosby Co. 469,968 made
Bossett Corporation 116,735 made
Columbian Enameling & Stamping Co. 268,850 made
Worchester Pressed Steel Co 193,840 made
Benjamin Electric Co. 33,600 made

Known heat-stamp markings in WWI American helemts:

UC
YJ
ZA
ZB
ZC Columbian Enamaling and Stamping Company
ZD
ZF
ZH
ZJ

I can't see the pin that secures the chinstrap holder to the helmet. Is it a split brad (british) or solid (US)?

I would say in all probability since your helmet has an American liner it's an American helmet that ended up in the UK and was given a UK unit insignia. Almost all unit insignias where painted in after the war. Out of curiousity, were UK troops allowed to take home their helmet or any other gear?

The only division I would say resembles your unit mark would be the Ohio 37th Buckeye Division but it's a red round circle inside a white circle.

John

 

[Lincolnsreg]

Hi John,

Many thanks for your reply. Thanks also for the info about makers. Interestingly I never new about the split pins being British ... which this has, though the liner I'm certain is Boston MA (as opposed to Lincolnshire U.K.) and the helmet stamp fits the ZC for the Columbian Enamaling and Stamping Company. Therefore there is no doubt it is American made, though (considering U.S. divisions and others also) the patch is the British 8th Division.

As to bringing back parts of uniforms back the Brits were quite strict about this, but (like any other conflict) they did.

I have never studied the subject in detail so I never realised that many of the markings were done after the war ... I guess as souvenirs? Perhaps it was a trophy for a chap in the 8th div brought back? I guess I'll never know, but it sits as a careful reminder of my GG Grandfather's part in the War (he was 8th div, 25th brig, 2nd Lincs) and that of his friends.

Thanks again for the information.

Cheers,
Dave