Fluted spike comparison

joerookery

joerookery

Well-known member
There has been a lot of discussion about fluted spikes. This morning I got an e-mail from a Dutch collector with even more questions. So I thought I would separate this out. Two of these pictures come from Colonel Ron and two from my collection. I know my photography sucks, but as Ron said the general spikes sit on top of the base. It's easy to see if you have photography at the right angle and the Hilsenbeck book does a good job of it. If you can see the rim of the base. It is a general's spike. If not it is not a General's spike.
Comparison2.jpg
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This is a subset of that e-mail.
All people know the Bayern general’s pickelhaube model 1914 with the colourful front piece. The spike is still a bit a confusing item for me. In some books, I see the spike as a normal officer’s spike, just entirely covering the base (stubbs). In other books, I see a spike being used similar as the Pruissian one: just on top of the base.



Do you have some indication which one is correct? Possibly both possibilities were being used.
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Stubbs has pictures of two helmets, starting on page 60 and going through page 64. My Bavarian general sits on top. The first one Stubbs shows does not. The second one does not either, but it is an M15 type helmet. So perhaps the M15 spikes or more standard? I don't know does anyone else?
 
Joe

If you don't have a mated spike and base (ie, just a spike), the difference between the accepted "prussian" fluted spike and the "bavarian" fluted spike is actually the number of ridges on the spike bottom. The prussian has two, with the second ridge being curled under just a bit so it sets on the spike base. The bavarian has a third ridge (or skirt) which hangs over the spike base. From your pictures, the prussian generals spike, bavarian M-15 and bavarian private purchase appear to be correct. From the picture, it is hard to determine whether the bavarian general spike has the third ridge (correct) or if I am looking at the rim of the spike base.

Dave
 
the number of ridges on the spike bottom.
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Dave,

Work with me here. Should I be counting ridges on top of the spike base or ridges on the bottom of the spike itself?
spikeridges.jpg
8) .
Underneath the item on the left war on top of the item on the right? Let me know and I will go look and take pictures. Very cool... where did you find this? Or is it just another fascinating discovery of yours. There seem to be so many!
 
Joe

The M-15 spike base and spike you show is a classic bavarian. If the bottom skirt that hangs down straight over the spike base were removed up to the second rounded ridge, you basically would have a prussian generals helmet with two ridges( with a little curling under of the bottom edge, once the skirt was removed). Now, with this information, the next time you buy a prussian generals spike, you also need to really look whether it started out as a bavarian spike.....

Dave
 
Okay here is the Bavarian General spike, and it has three ridges. They're not exactly the same ridges as the M15 Bavarian. The Stubbs book has pictures of two generals helmet that are Bavarian and looks like the M15 spike ridges on both. The Hilsenbeck book shows Bavarian generals that look like mine. What is the documentation that makes one or the other correct?

bavgenridges.jpg
 
Joe

As far as I'm concerned, if they have the third ridge (or skirt) that rolls over the spike base, both are correct. A bavarian spike is a bavarian spike, and if your M-15 spike fit on your general's helmet, it is now a "Bavarian generals spike" (if it were in silver). Like with the smooth prussian spikes, there are fat ones, low ones, high ones etc. and they all aren't interchangable because of differing sizes of threaded screws, differing courseness of threads, differing depths of how inset the screw plate is recessed and differing diameters across the bottom. I still state that the prussian fluted spike is basically a bavarian spike (although bavarians tend to be stubbier), but with only two ridges, the bottom being curled in so that when it sits on the spike base, you see three ridges (the bottom one being the lip of the spike base).

Dave
 
Dear forum members. It is a pleasure to join you at the forum, being the Dutch collector from Holland, who asked Joe this question. I asked German militaria dealer: Mr. Weitze (weitze.net) the question about the spike. In my opinion Helmut Weitze is highly respectable because of his knowledge and pleasant personality. His answer was:

Let me just give you a short briefing: there is a basic difference between the bavarian fluted spikes and the prussians: the bavarian spikes have the edge hang over the base, on the prussian (i.e. General or 1. Guard Rgt. foot) the spike is sitting on top.
The bavarian Generals are basicly ordinary officer helmets (silver or gold, depending on) with the only difference of the enameled center medaillon.

This answer might indeed indicate the Bavarian spikes do hang over the base. Spikes on top should point into the Prussian direction

Regards,

Ad
 
I know this doesn't really belong here, but given the poverty of most reproduction helmets, the Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt Flugeladjutant postively blows my mind. Oh! the marginal relevance is that it has a fluted spike.

http://www.kammerbulle.de.vu/

Should anyone be interested, the price is 1,200.00 Euro. The shell is made of plastic.

Chas.
 
Thanks Tony!
I did not measure the spikes and yours looks a bit shorter but it is still quite well crafted. I mean, it still looks elegant. If you look at the Trawnik book page 194 especially, you see these first pattern M15 helmets that look really crude. Does anyone have one of these? It almost looks like there's only two steps to the platform, though I have to admit the photographs in a book did not do well with the color printing.
 
joerookery said:
I did not measure the spikes and yours looks a bit shorter but it is still quite well crafted. I mean, it still looks elegant. If you look at the Trawnik book page 194 especially, you see these first pattern M15 helmets that look really crude.
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I should have mentioned that this is a removable spike top for a Trichter. The non-removable Hessen issued spike tops are quite less elegant. Like many others, I did not buy Randy's book due to the unfortunate printing issues.
 
Like many others, I did not buy Randy's book due to the unfortunate printing issues.
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It certainly is not as good as some of the other Schiffer's products. Picture wise anyway. I think the appendixes are worth the price of admission alone. There are many text things that he is the only one to touch in English.

The two enlisted spikes belong to Randy. While I have these pictures from another project, these also are far from perfect. Can you see what I mean about almost only two ridges? The M15 is very crude.
Hessianonly.jpg
 
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