G stands for?

[Anonymous]

I had hoped to add this to Joe's depot mark thread in the old forum, but it wasn't meant to be. Below is an Ersatz helmet I purchased in late August at the antique fair in Bouckville, New York. Bowman refers to this pattern as "Stahlblech." Steel tin sounds a bit confused, but, then, so was Bowman.

For this type of helmet, the overall condition is well above average. Another bonus is the untouched state of the chemically darkened brass. All too often, some collector will mistake this for tarnish and wreck the finish through Brasso polishing.

Unfortunately, the liner is gone. The felt band to which it was sewn is intact, but that's all.

Now for the query. The helmet is marked "B.I.A. VII" over "G." From Joe and Max's research, I take the first part to be "Beckleidungs-Instandsetzung-Amt VII." Does anyone have an idea as to the meaning of "G?" Please, don't say Gendarme; it doesn't sound relevant for a unit engaged in repairing helmets for the VII Armeekorps.

I have a studio portrait of a soldier wearing a "Stahlblech." Note the collar dogs. His shoulder straps bear no cypher. I would also appreciate any leads regarding this individual's unit.

Chas.

 

[Glennj]

Hi Chas,

the Landsturm soldier is from the Landsturm-Infanterie-Ausbildungs-Bataillon des VII. A.K. Sennelager (VII. 32). It was formed on the 16th of August 1915 and became the III./Landsturm-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 606 on the 5th of December 1916.

Regards
Glenn

 

[Rendsburg]

...

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

That helmet will be magnetic, and probably show traces of machine turning if you peer hard enough at the paint Chas. "Stahlblech" is the German name for these, even in period Probe labels. Bowman did not invent it. He was too busy confusing everything else.

Glenn of course ID'd the unit (welcome back Glenn!) although I am not sure where you got the Ausbildungs from? No doubt you are correct though. And what a great photo!

To ease your mind Joe, here is the obverse and reverse of a chemically darkened eagle Wappen. Not at all like tranish and like Chas said, most people try to remove it with little success.

And compare to a normal line chicken.

 

[Anonymous]

the Landsturm soldier is from the Landsturm-Infanterie-Ausbildungs-Bataillon des VII. A.K. Sennelager (VII. 32)

Hi Glenn:

Welcome back and thank you for the i.d. Would Ausbildungs translate to "training" in this instance? If so, would the meaning be a battalion in training or a battalion that provided training?

Hi Joe:

Everything Tony said is correct. The helmet is magnetic and was turned on a lathe. Here is a close-up of the darkened brass spike (one can even see where the coating has worn away at the edges and points of contact). Think of this as an anti-glare or anti-reflective measure.

I have two Stahlblechen and will post pictures of the other later today. I have every reason to believe the chinstraps on both helmets are original to the helmet. Both are brown leather with steel hardware(!) Think about that while I get busy with the camera.

Chas.

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

I use "chemically darkened" as it is not paint. I believe it was a form of brass-blackener and that it was sprayed on which is why the reverses are untouched. As Chas said, for anti-reflective qualities. It was possibly similar to what you can buy now in a gun shop. You need very little for it to turn brass very, very dark.

 

[Anonymous]

Charles are both of your spikes fixed or removable?

Hi Joe:

Ask and ye shall receive. This is Stahlblech Nummer Zwei. The Wappen and Knopf 91 are brass, but the spike is an M15 bayonet mount and made of steel.

Adding to the hybrid nature of this helmet, the Wappen is not only darkened brass, but it has been painted. Furthermore, the shell was once black. The feldgrau paint was applied by brush.

The liner is intact and marked size 55. There is also a manufacturer's stamp dated 1915.

I don't believe Stahlblechen were outfitted originally with the M15 spike. The other examples I have seen (Tony and Brian's) both have the brass M95 static spike (as does my Bouckville helmet). Perhaps this Stahlblech was doctored by Beckleidungs-Instandsetzung-Amt VII
(if not some collector).

Chas.

 

[Anonymous]

If anyone is interested in acquiring one of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6558083664&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Act fast! The auction ends today. Too bad about the Wappen, somebody did a number on the finish.

Another interesting feature of these helmets, and something of a precursor to Stahlhelm design, is that as the shell size increases, the flared visor apron shrinks. Look at the profile of the eBay helmet (size 57) and compare it with my size 55. Making allowances for the seller photographing his helmet through a wide angle lens, the appearance is still noticeably different.

Chas.

 

[joerookery]

I don't believe Stahlblechen were outfitted originally with the M15 spike.

They were not. However, I have seen many with an M15 spike. Most are static.

There were so many mix-and-match deals it drives me insane. Joe's desire to put everything in a nice simple box surely does not work. I do not know if I'll ever get to the bottom of it and I'm in hot pursuit of the order documents. There were so many manufacturers, Bezirkscommandos and war ministers involved.

Another mix-and-match deal is the metal furniture itself on Ersatz helmets. Most easily seen on the wappen, there was brass, followed by some paint like material, followed by "chemically darkened." followed by gray metal. The timing of this progression seems to have waxed and waned. It is also not clear exactly how the war ministers of Saxony Wurttemberg and Bavaria dealt with each of these. So much to learn... do you have any idea how much we all learn from this forum and such amazing speed!

Tony, good analogy about the gun shop. I don't know how this stuff works. Does it actually permeate the metal? Maybe one of the gun guys will know. Your comment about spraying it on made me think. I actually have to figure out now, how they painted all of this stuff. Brush painting is pretty obvious. But spraying machines? It makes a lot of sense.

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

//spraying machines//

Well, up here we call them-thar "spraying machines" paint guns. Haha!

But yes, I believe the fittings were sprayed. The Germans had very strict regs when it comes to application of chemicals due to the war, so much so that aircraft had charts to determine how much to cover an area for the best benefit with the least dope. Helmet manufacturers would be under similar constraints I would think, and really, why blacken the back of a Wappen or the inside of a spike?

One of my main interests has always been Ersatz and one thing I learned early on, is that if I tried to place everything neatly into time-lines, it could make me go half-mad. Too late obviously......

The Ersatz came out very early in the war during 1914 as we agree and it seems to make sense that helmets repaired etc would end up with M15 spikes etc as there are a ton of them out there, and photos support this. What is interesting, is that the Stahlblech ones seem to be the only ones with chemically darkened fittings, or even more interesting, the only ones with gilt fittings painted grey to match M15 spikes. I have a grey-painted brass eagle and it was very hard to find.

Brass blackener works like cold-bluing as far as I know, which of course is very different than factory bluing which involves boiling metal in bluing chemicals, similar to Parkerizing. But what it does? I have no idea. Some form of chemical oxidation?

One brand from gun shops is Casey's Brass Blackener which model railroad guys use to blacken brass train engines, and the brass goes black.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Joe:

The Sachsen helmet is very interesting. Perhaps the spike has the high collar because it is a bayonet mount variant.

I found another photo of a Stahlblech (this time in the field). There is quite a story behind this picture; however, I want to see if someone can identify it before spilling the beans. Hint, Eastern Front.

Chas.

 

[hamtaro]

Hi Joe,

So, is the Saxon tin haube legit? The only erzats steelhelmet that I have is a wappenless steelhelmet,but I belive its a prussian, it has a fixed and non-removable spike.

Cheers,
Bambang

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

//Tony is your tin magnetic? (ie is it really thin steel?//.

Yes. All my Stahlblech examples are steel.

 

[Anonymous]

The Bavarians began testing metallhelmes in October 1914. They ordered 20 each of aluminum and steel models to test. This led to an order in October of 1914 of 20,000 black metallhelme's. A manufacturer of toys from Nürnberg, the Bing brothers, offered a helmet that was only 37 mm thick, but had the required strength. These lighter helmets led to large orders, and at the end of October 1914 the first 40,000 were ordered from Bing and another 60,000 in November.

Hi Joe:

What is the source you quoted above? Just curious.

The Bavarian Ersatz in the Bing style has a liner secured by a tab through slot design identical to that used in making tinplate toys. I have one of these, but it is not marked Gebruder Bing. It has been knocked about a bit, but has one very unusual feature.

The Bavarian Wappen is fire gilt. This seems rather extravagant given the nature of Ersatz gear. Also, I encourage everyone to look at Tony's example: http://www.kaisersbunker.com/feldgrau/helmets/ His is M15 and incredibly rare.

If you look closely, you will see the tabs securing the liner.

Finally, the interior, which is stamped size 55. No magnet is required to identify the composition of this specimen. It is rusting.

I'll tell the story behind the Stahlblech photo a little later, if you don't mind. :wink:

Chas.

 

[joerookery]

Chas,

The source quoted is somewhere around page 40 of my latest diatribe. The footnote on that section of attributes most of it to Kraus.

I love the pictures of your helmet. The what makes you think it is a Bing?
Weissenburger & Cie made 20,000 of these types of helmets at the same time. There is a picture of an unmarked example on page 75 of the one volume Kraus work.

I believe that the metallhelme main bodies were stamped out of a single piece of steel. Some of the stamping dies could look like turning. I don't think there was any lathe involved. I also am coming to the conclusion that all of these helmets are steel or some derivative thereof.

What is important about the Bavarian example is the timing it teaches us. The Bavarian war Minister ordered the initial tests on the first of October 1914. The first 20,000 were ordered by the 27th of October. The same day as the initial 40,000 from Bing. In less than 30 days 60,000 helmets entered the inventory process. This was amazingly quick. Changes or improvements lowered the weight of the helmet to 75 -- 100 g, made the helmet profile lower and the material more durable. This introduced the thinner, “tin” helmet. It really was not tin but rather thin steel. This still didn't satisfy everyone, and the kingdoms began ordering no more metal helmets were to be procured as early as November 1914. The Bavarians were the biggest users of metal helmets. The Bavarians continued to use black painted steel helmets until June of 1915, when the M15 leather helmet took over.

 

[Anonymous]

what makes you think it is a Bing?

Hi Joe:

Actually, I am fairly certain it is not Bing. Bing helmets are marked as such, and mine is not attributable. However, the appearance is completely consistent with the Bing archetype. I believe the helmet to be tin; it's too light to be steel, and it is not aluminum. It truly has the look and feel of a child's toy.

Chas.

 

[flasheart]

OK, Who beat me out of the Saxon tinplate ersatz?

 

[J.LeBrasseur]

Was not me either, although I was looking at it!

James

 

[Anonymous]

Is it magnetic?

Ja, natürlich! Der Helm ist magnetisch.

Hochachtungsvoll!

Chas.

 

[joerookery]

Ok so the twin with a G?!?!?!?
6560834983

Chemically darkened -- or why Joe doesn't wanna be a chemist


A friend sent me the details from a 1900 era gunsmith catalog. Different metals were done different ways. All of these solutions oxidize the metal surface and leave a coating that penetrates below the surface of the metal.
For silver, they used silver nitrate.
For brass they used a solution of 1 gallon water, 1 ounce of potassium sulfide, and 2 1/4 ounces of ammoniumhydrosulfide.
The modern brass blackening products intended for touch up work on gun parts contain a selenium dioxide solution.

In small quantities, aluminum could only be darkened by painting. It is possible to anodize the metal, a process which is large and expensive, but they had the capability back then. This is essentially an electrolysis process involving dyes.