Garde Officer Wappen comparison 1870's vs 1900's

b.loree

b.loree

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At present, I am fortunate enough to be working on an 1870's Garde officer helmet and I thought I would take advantage of this to compare it's wappen with later models from the 1900's. There are some subtle differences. First, we know that this helmet is from the 1870's due to the height of the spike, the liner and the profile of the helmet itself. I am going to put up the photos for comparison but I would invite members to comment on the differences which they see between the two plates.
IMG_3941.jpeg
First a side by side photo, the 1870's wappen is on the left. The wappen on the right is a garde reservist piece with no motto.
IMG_3943.jpeg
Close up of the 1900's plate.
IMG_3942.jpeg
1870's wappen.
IMG_3944.jpeg
An overhead shot.
IMG_3937.jpeg
A Garde officer helmet from my collection. The fittings on this are zinc except for the wappen itself which is pre war quality. In my experience, it is common for the white enamel on these Garde stars to be cracked or missing pieces.
IMG_3938.jpeg
Let's see how many differences the membership can come up with.
 
b.loree said:
At present, I am fortunate enough to be working on an 1870's Garde officer helmet and I thought I would take advantage of this to compare it's wappen with later models from the 1900's. There are some subtle differences. First, we know that this helmet is from the 1870's due to the height of the spike, the liner and the profile of the helmet itself. I am going to put up the photos for comparison but I would invite members to comment on the differences which they see between the two plates.
View attachment 31147
First a side by side photo, the 1870's wappen is on the left. The wappen on the right is a garde reservist piece with no motto.
View attachment 31148
Close up of the 1900's plate.
View attachment 31149
1870's wappen.
View attachment 31150
An overhead shot.
View attachment 31151
A Garde officer helmet from my collection. The fittings on this are zinc except for the wappen itself which is pre war quality. In my experience, it is common for the white enamel on these Garde stars to be cracked or missing pieces.
View attachment 31153
Let's see how many differences the membership can come up with.
Click to expand...
IMO the 1900's plate is a little larger
the 1870's Garde Star is flatter
I missed this topic when you posted it
nice topic
sometimes interesting topics like these get pushed out by other topics
and in my case get missed
that is why I like to go to "What's New " and look as often as I can
It is well worth it when I see something like this
My Prussian General helmet has the early , flatter Garde Star
I will try and get a photo of it
Steve
 
KAGGR#1 said:
IMO the 1900's plate is a little larger
the 1870's Garde Star is flatter
I missed this topic when you posted it
nice topic
sometimes interesting topics like these get pushed out by other topics
and in my case get missed
that is why I like to go to "What's New " and look as often as I can
It is well worth it when I see something like this
My Prussian General helmet has the early , flatter Garde Star
I will try and get a photo of it
Steve
Click to expand...
It's not often that we can have 2 plates side by side for view
Steve
 
Thanks for responding Steve, you are correct the 1870’s wappen star is flatter. The 1900’s star is much more bulbous and larger. The older eagle itself is also smaller. If you look close, you can see that the word Koenig on the older plate is split….it finishes up on the other side of the star. The complete word is on the left side of the newer star. There are a couple of other differences as well, let’s see if anyone else can spot them.
 
I missed that post too.
Brian, I wrote it in other threads. The diameter of the officer’s guard star was officially increased from 7,3 cm up to 9 cm in 1899, along with the increased dimensions of the guard eagle, which previously measured 23/11 cm and grew up to 28/12.7 cm in 1899. It was introduced with a new clothing regulations for officer‘s - Part 2 (page 44 of the linked pdf, and page 86 of the regulation).
 
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It would be very interesting if this modification was similar introduced for enlisted men in 1903. Unfortunately, the dress code for enlisted men doesn't give any measurements for the Wappen and I couldn't find any of the mentioned drawings that the regulations for enlisted men refer to.
 
Thank you for that excellent information Sandy! I have never examined a pre 1899 Garde Officer wappen before and I thought that a comparison post would interest our members. I recently purchased a Garde M15 helmet with a pre war star on it something I have never seen. Removing the star revealed a neusilber chest on the eagle! I will make a post on this wappen in a few days.
 
b.loree said:
Thank you for that excellent information Sandy! I have never examined a pre 1899 Garde Officer wappen before and I thought that a comparison post would interest our members. I recently purchased a Garde M15 helmet with a pre war star on it something I have never seen. Removing the star revealed a neusilber chest on the eagle! I will make a post on this wappen in a few days.
Click to expand...
Brian
How about a post with photos of the helmet that you write about .
Too bad such a good topic as this "gets hidden " and we don't get to see it
unless we go back to " What's new "
Steve
 
KAGGR#1 said:
IMO the 1900's plate is a little larger
the 1870's Garde Star is flatter
I missed this topic when you posted it
nice topic
sometimes interesting topics like these get pushed out by other topics
and in my case get missed
that is why I like to go to "What's New " and look as often as I can
It is well worth it when I see something like this
My Prussian General helmet has the early , flatter Garde Star
I will try and get a photo of it
Steve
Click to expand...
Brian
Here is my earlier Prussian Generals helmet
I have owned it for many years
I can't see if the word King continues to the other side like yours ?
I do not like to move the old feather bush around too much
StevePrussian General.JPGPrussian general a.JPG
 
I checked Steve, your “ Koenig” is not separated like on the 1870’s wappen and the wings on your eagle are not the same either. The wings on the 1870’s have an indentation. The more modern wings do not. The beak of the older eagle is also very different, the tongue of the bird is quite evident and in sharp detail. The beak on the 1899 version is different, no tongue and less defined. So looking at the eagle on your helmet Steve, I see an 1899 style Garde officer wappen with a less protruding star on it than the mid war one from my collection. I think that it is very interesting that we can make these comparisons between the different years of Garde wappen. Last, the 1870’s helmet is now on it’s way back to it’s home in the USA.
 
Don't miss the tail feathers, which are wider on the 1870 eagle. Also, the designs of the scepters are totally different and the 1870's eagle has 1 feather tip on the top edge, the 1900's has 3 feather tips there.
 
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