Help Please Picklehaube ID

B

Bob Jones

New member
I have NCOs Pickllehaube posible 1891 model it has ; saxon eagle wrappen( 3holes in centre, and 4 lower down where insignia has been removed). With soldered loops through grommetted holes on the front of the helmet with leather wedges to hold it in place. Markings on rear peak IR32 RR Jr71 1905. Inside Rudolf Wiener(makers Stamp ?) Size? 56 1/2. It has Bayern Blue and white korkade & Reichs-Kokade on the other side. It has what seems to be a bullet graze along the top left hand side, but otherwise the helmet is in good condition with linning, leather chin stap etc.
(Could it be Thuningian Regiment, is Kokarde correct, is wrappen correct,if so what is missing insignia).
I would be gratfull for any help. Thanks Bob.
 
It can not be Saxon Bob as they do not have an eagle helmet plate, instead they have a brass star burst with silver shield in the centre. There are no doubt pics of a Saxon helmet here on the forum so just do a search. An eagle helmet plate would indicate Prussian or one of the smaller Dutchies regiments. The number 56 1/2 is the size in cm. IR 32 and 71 are both Thuringisches Regiments which wore the typical brass Prussian Eagle helmet plate. RR71 would be the Reserve Regiment for the Regular Line Regt 71. So the helmet would have been first issued to IR32 and then recycled to the reserve regiment 71. So there is no explanation as to why there would be holes in the helmet plate. Can you post some pics of your helmet here on the forum?
 
Sorry it is a prussian eagle wrappen, does this correspond with the bayern kokarde. please let me know the best way of sending images. Bob
 
Cockades are often mixed up on helmets and even mis-identified in reference books. You can post photos by loading them into something similar to photobucket and then copying the image code to the forum page. It's pretty easy, since PB loads from the desktop.

But... photos would be good!

:D Ron
 
Posting these for Bob!

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Ok looks like a M95 Prussian for Other ranks not NCO.

Front plate looks to be missing reserve cross.

Bavarian Kokarden should not be on this helmet, it is missing the Prussian Black/white Kokarden.

Good condition with some damage to the shell.

Bonus is the chinstrap which is often missing.

James
 
Hi I have sent James detailed images of wrappen Can any body let me know if it is correct for helmet , and what insignia has been removed.
Thanks Bob
 
Hi Bob:

Though there isn't a direct or logical correlation between the Fuerst plate and the helmet to which it is attached, it would be a simple thing to swap it for the correct line eagle with Koenig bandeau and save the former for a rainy day.

The regiments and battalions utilizing the Fuerst eagle were:

IR 92 Braunschweig
IR 93 Anhalt
IR 94 Sachsen-Weimar: Weimar; II. Eisenach; III. Jena
IR 95 Sachsen-Meiningen-Coburg-Gotha: Gotha; II. Hildburghausen; III. Coburg
IR 96 Thüringian: however, only II. Reuß; III. Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt

IRs 94, 95, 96 were Thüringisches; therefore, when you mentioned a "saxon eagle wappen" above, you weren't far from the truth.

I own examples of IR 94…

P1011057.jpg


… and IR 96 (Reuß)

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The three holes in your plate are a stumper, as I have never encountered more than two. I see the center tail feather is also pierced. Would it be possible to view a macro of the eagle's breast feathers? The absence of sharp detail in the stamping is a concern.

Perhaps, one of our other members can run with the ball.
 
Interesting wappen, like Chas I have never seen a 3 holer. Why put a hole in the motto bandeau for example?
 
Hi i have sent close up images of wrappen to James to post. The detail is very good, but on the breast of the eagle it is poor possibly worn, may have had loose emblem at some time, the reason for the third hole in bandeau may be an attempt to fix this ?.(the third hole in bandeau seems to be punched outward the lower two punched inward).The four holes lower down are all punched outward The one though the tail presents a mystery at present.
 
Thanks for the additional photos, Bob. The nature of the holes and wear is exactly as you described.

If only it could speak…
 
Thank you all for the imput so far. Just wondered ANY BODY INTRESTRED IN BUYING HELMET AND WRAPPEN OPEN TO OFFERS.
Bob[/b]
 
I am not really surprised to see a "Fuerst" plate on this helmet since... I own exactly the same one. Not only the markings are identical but they are displayed in the same way: I.R 32 in fat characters in the upper left, LBRJR71 underneath in a rectangular frame. Even the date, below IR32, seems to be the same (1909). Mine bears a Sachsen-Weimar reserve plate. No scroll on the eagle and a large added reservist cross bearing the Fuerst motto (shown in a previous thread; I think Tony had noticed how unusually large this reserve cross is). Owing to the origin and condition of my helmet, there is absolutely no doubt that it is genuine and completely original. I would therefore assume that this one was also a Sachsen-Weimar reservist helmet, the eagle of which lost its center Wappen and reserve cross.
Bruno
 
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