Suspicious Hessen NCO Kokarde
- Thread starter Tony without Kaiser
- Start date
argonne
Well-known member
Are you really sure, Tony?
As you wrote in your description, this a very particular cockade for such two ranks of Vizefeldwebel and Feldwebel. I personaly think that your scarce cockade is genuine!A little bit like the very special hanseatic cockade for those two unique ranks on my RJR76 named helmet with tracked and traced wearer (Vizefeldwebel and Offizierstellvertreter Karl STEINEL, 8/RJR76). As for Hessen, it´s an officer 53mm cockade pattern with a large center hole to accomodate the M91 side posts! I would not change your cockade!! Please check the back of it, if it is also white painted, it´s a good sign!
In addition to that, I think that you made an error of interpretation in your description with the bataillon stamp. It´s clearly I.B , which is matching the company stamps 2.C on the other side of back visor.
Philippe
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I regret hijacking your thread Coert, but as it is an eBay item, it will be gone in a few weeks, so I don't think you will mind.
Phillipe I'm sure you are correct with the stamps, I have never been strong in the area of markings. I'll adjust that page.
So below is the Kokarde in question. I am suspicious of it, as my understanding was that on Officer Hessen Kokarden, the red rings are supposed to be smooth. Or am I mistaken? On this one the red is ribbed like the white.
The white paint shows age, and the reverse also appears to be old, as it is a very dark aged brass like the fittings. Any opinions are welcome.
The helmet itself though, is superb.
Phillipe I'm sure you are correct with the stamps, I have never been strong in the area of markings. I'll adjust that page.
So below is the Kokarde in question. I am suspicious of it, as my understanding was that on Officer Hessen Kokarden, the red rings are supposed to be smooth. Or am I mistaken? On this one the red is ribbed like the white.
The white paint shows age, and the reverse also appears to be old, as it is a very dark aged brass like the fittings. Any opinions are welcome.
The helmet itself though, is superb.
CLOVIS 57
Well-known member
Hello Steve,
In fact, you have to focus on the hardware. As for the officers of the Hanse, the cockades of Officer of Hesse are made of silver nickel silver.
Below, the cockade for non-commissioned officers is silver and not painted white. Ditto for the 2 "Off" models, which are in silver nickel silver or turned towards Berlin white.
The reproductions are terrible. On a blue background, last photo: The Kammerbulle
In fact, you have to focus on the hardware. As for the officers of the Hanse, the cockades of Officer of Hesse are made of silver nickel silver.
Below, the cockade for non-commissioned officers is silver and not painted white. Ditto for the 2 "Off" models, which are in silver nickel silver or turned towards Berlin white.
The reproductions are terrible. On a blue background, last photo: The Kammerbulle
Attachments
Tony- many of my examples are the same as yours...
James
James
argonne
Well-known member
Tony, I persist and sign: your cockade may really be authentic! I do not agree to the fact that cockades must be rather silver than white for the ranks of Portepee Unteroffiziere (Vizefeldwebel, Feldwebel, Vizewachtmeister, Wachtmeister). Most important is the size of the cockade, it should have the officers´s size of 53mm.
Further, the Duchy of Hessen-Darmstadt is well known for its differents pattern of cockades. The form is not the absolutely rule! For example, here is another (genuine) EM Hessen cockade on my JR118/RJR88 2B helmet. Note that the pattern is slightly different than the one on ebay! However are both cockades 100% genuine!
Philippe
Two examples of hessian officer helmets with a white (and not silver ) cockade:
Sometimes, hessian helmets even show some very particular Reich cockade:
Further, the Duchy of Hessen-Darmstadt is well known for its differents pattern of cockades. The form is not the absolutely rule! For example, here is another (genuine) EM Hessen cockade on my JR118/RJR88 2B helmet. Note that the pattern is slightly different than the one on ebay! However are both cockades 100% genuine!
Philippe
Two examples of hessian officer helmets with a white (and not silver ) cockade:
Sometimes, hessian helmets even show some very particular Reich cockade:
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argonne
Well-known member
A Dragoner
Here is a link posted by Steve in another thread. You can see both kinds of hessian officer cockades, white and silver. And different forms: ribbon form and flat form
Philippe
Here is a link posted by Steve in another thread. You can see both kinds of hessian officer cockades, white and silver. And different forms: ribbon form and flat form
Philippe
Apologies everyone. I hijacked that eBay Hessen Kokarde thread, and found a way to split the thread as these postings were very useful and interesting. So this is the replacement thread.
coert65
Well-known member
No need for apologies Tony, I found the discussion about these kokarden very interesting to read!
So, there was no hijacking of the topic, as far as I was concerned. In fact it made me learn al lot more about differences between those Hessen kokarden, the variations that exist between them. Variations, but all original.
So, as usual here on the forum, I learned again!
Regards, Coert.