Hollwood, helmets, props, and militaria collecting
- Thread starter USMC-EOD
- Start date
USMC-EOD
Active member
Hey Brian.
I always wondered about that myself. I watched the movie, and I recall that all of the uniforms looked correct.
I remember one scene where they were clowning around in the barracks with a real pickelhaube and some guy brought his rear rear end down on the spike to much hilarity. All of the pickelhauben looked real to me, but they were probably everywhere right after the war.
The uniforms looked good, but from what I have heard the old studios back then had armies of cheap seamstresses sewing and working costumes off set, so you never know if a screen used uniform in black and white might be the real thing. They are easy to spot in hand though, if you know what you are looking at!
I do remember a scene where they showed a big attack across no man's land, and a German bunker was shown from the front firing away with a machine gun. It was obviously a Vickers Mk1 variant with a blank firing device, and it looked like they didn't have it on a tripod. Just balanced the end of the water jacket on the edge of the sandbags in the firing slit of the bunker and waved it around while firing blanks for dramatic effect I guess. Couple of "Germans" in it with M1916 helmets...
One thing I remember asking my buddy back in California was about the WWII German uniforms used in the TV show "Combat!" and other older movies and TV shows, and why the color seemed off from the real thing. Almost a purple-ish and gray hue to the cloth. A really goofy color.
He told me that back in the days when everything was in black and white, and lighting and background were important, colors for studio-made clothing and uniforms were important in order for the audience to see them stand out properly in the film shot.
I think that is why you see a lot of goofy colored uniforms worn by German soldiers in the movies in the late 60s and early 70s. The studios had not bothered to change over for color film yet.
I have several of the old style studio goofy colored German uniforms at my house in California. If I remember, I will photograph a couple and post them in December when I go back out that way to visit.
Bryan.
I always wondered about that myself. I watched the movie, and I recall that all of the uniforms looked correct.
I remember one scene where they were clowning around in the barracks with a real pickelhaube and some guy brought his rear rear end down on the spike to much hilarity. All of the pickelhauben looked real to me, but they were probably everywhere right after the war.
The uniforms looked good, but from what I have heard the old studios back then had armies of cheap seamstresses sewing and working costumes off set, so you never know if a screen used uniform in black and white might be the real thing. They are easy to spot in hand though, if you know what you are looking at!
I do remember a scene where they showed a big attack across no man's land, and a German bunker was shown from the front firing away with a machine gun. It was obviously a Vickers Mk1 variant with a blank firing device, and it looked like they didn't have it on a tripod. Just balanced the end of the water jacket on the edge of the sandbags in the firing slit of the bunker and waved it around while firing blanks for dramatic effect I guess. Couple of "Germans" in it with M1916 helmets...
One thing I remember asking my buddy back in California was about the WWII German uniforms used in the TV show "Combat!" and other older movies and TV shows, and why the color seemed off from the real thing. Almost a purple-ish and gray hue to the cloth. A really goofy color.
He told me that back in the days when everything was in black and white, and lighting and background were important, colors for studio-made clothing and uniforms were important in order for the audience to see them stand out properly in the film shot.
I think that is why you see a lot of goofy colored uniforms worn by German soldiers in the movies in the late 60s and early 70s. The studios had not bothered to change over for color film yet.
I have several of the old style studio goofy colored German uniforms at my house in California. If I remember, I will photograph a couple and post them in December when I go back out that way to visit.
Bryan.
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
There is a collector that I know that has worked at the
movie studios for many years
He is not a member of the site
Steve
USMC-EOD
Active member
Hey Steve,
It seems like most of the collectors in Southern California eventually end up going to the little monthly militaria show in Bellflower at the Eagles Club.
I have found some of the best finds of my collecting life at that tiny little show.
I have met several authors of books, and guys who have the most amazing collections I have ever seen.
Ive met lawyers, doctors and and indian chiefs as well as rascals and bums there.
All of them show up for the hobby and a great time is had.
Nothing surprises me at that little show any more.
I bet your film buddy has been there a few times, I would wager.
It seems like most of the collectors in Southern California eventually end up going to the little monthly militaria show in Bellflower at the Eagles Club.
I have found some of the best finds of my collecting life at that tiny little show.
I have met several authors of books, and guys who have the most amazing collections I have ever seen.
Ive met lawyers, doctors and and indian chiefs as well as rascals and bums there.
All of them show up for the hobby and a great time is had.
Nothing surprises me at that little show any more.
I bet your film buddy has been there a few times, I would wager.
I have one of the reproduction German tunics used in All Quiet, some were original and some were reproduction, the better items were used for close up shots. In the 70s, I would not buy an item with a studio marking, but by the turn of the century, a studio marking was better than a cirtificate of authenticity, none of the fakers, even today, put studio marks on their fakes.
USMC-EOD
Active member
All very true, Gus.
I would like to be able to say that I was attempting to be a "trend setter" in my pursuit of Studio Prop clothing and items.
The reality is that I was a broke Infantry Corporal on a tight budget and with a one year old son way back then.
I don't think these studio marked original items will ever be as valuable within the collecting community as unmarked uniforms and helmets.
They are neat, however, and I think they do have a place, with their own unique follow-on history. With an un-messed with uniform, I tend to look at studio markings as a kind of bonus.
Bryan.
I would like to be able to say that I was attempting to be a "trend setter" in my pursuit of Studio Prop clothing and items.
The reality is that I was a broke Infantry Corporal on a tight budget and with a one year old son way back then.
I don't think these studio marked original items will ever be as valuable within the collecting community as unmarked uniforms and helmets.
They are neat, however, and I think they do have a place, with their own unique follow-on history. With an un-messed with uniform, I tend to look at studio markings as a kind of bonus.
Bryan.
seagull
Well-known member
Around 20 years ago the biggest theatre in my area was selling off props. Someone with some weapons knowledge noticed a couple of Winchester 94 lever action rifles that had been cut down, MUCH modified and sprayed with gold paint to look like "ray guns", for some sci-fi play. Turned out they were bought by the theatre from the Buffalo Bill Wild West Show, just before it completed its tour and sailed back to the US ! The local police confiscated them and they were destroyed, sadly.
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
We were out in Calif in 2 different years 2004 & 2005
we visited the wine country
but also had a couple of collector friends in the San Francisco area
we were able to stay with one of them
and on one trip my friend drove me over to a military show
I don't remember the name but it was just out of San Francisco
I met Ben Weed from Stockton for the first time
I knew him for years but this was my first and only meeting
Here is the "changing of the guard " for the J z P R 3 Standarte
on one of the trips
Calif has always been a "hotbed " for collectors
Steve
USMC-EOD
Active member
Hey Seagull,
I'm assuming you live in Great Britain.
That is a sad story. It kind of hurts me to the core when I hear things like that.
Unfortunately, the only bright spot to the rules and regulations collectors in your country face is that a lot of the military arms and equipment from WWI and WWII end up over here in the US. Piles of it...,
Like picking through the cosmoline covered bones of a great Empire. Very sad.
I personally own a large variety of British, Australian, Indian, and Canadian arms, and not because I initially wanted to start collecting them. Mostly because they were just ncredibly cheap and available! I really think it would have been a fine thing if these countries had offered these arms (paid for by Commonwealth Taxpayers) to Commonwealth veterans and collectors on a large scale.
And Steve,
I was in Iraq for most of 04 and 05, but when I was back Stateside, I was a lot further down the coast in San Diego County.
That JzP Standard is over the top cool! Amazing item...
And you are right! California has more militaria collectors than any other place I have lived. It is truly a hotbed.
Bryan.
I'm assuming you live in Great Britain.
That is a sad story. It kind of hurts me to the core when I hear things like that.
Unfortunately, the only bright spot to the rules and regulations collectors in your country face is that a lot of the military arms and equipment from WWI and WWII end up over here in the US. Piles of it...,
Like picking through the cosmoline covered bones of a great Empire. Very sad.
I personally own a large variety of British, Australian, Indian, and Canadian arms, and not because I initially wanted to start collecting them. Mostly because they were just ncredibly cheap and available! I really think it would have been a fine thing if these countries had offered these arms (paid for by Commonwealth Taxpayers) to Commonwealth veterans and collectors on a large scale.
And Steve,
I was in Iraq for most of 04 and 05, but when I was back Stateside, I was a lot further down the coast in San Diego County.
That JzP Standard is over the top cool! Amazing item...
And you are right! California has more militaria collectors than any other place I have lived. It is truly a hotbed.
Bryan.
My first MAX show many, many years ago, a gentleman came in from a California prop house and had 1 table at the show. It was full of swords from the prop house. all in a big barrel to pick through.
I remember I did not have much money then, but I picked up a stunning Austrian navel sword with etched blade, and a mermaid and dolphins on crossguard, leather scabbard etc. Near mint for $300, only piece I could afford. Later regrettably sold it for much more then that to fund helmets, still miss that sword and have never seen another like it.
James
I remember I did not have much money then, but I picked up a stunning Austrian navel sword with etched blade, and a mermaid and dolphins on crossguard, leather scabbard etc. Near mint for $300, only piece I could afford. Later regrettably sold it for much more then that to fund helmets, still miss that sword and have never seen another like it.
James
Bryan et al. This has been a very enjoyable and interesting morning read. Many thanks.
USMC-EOD
Active member
Hi James,
I picked up the majority of the prop house uniforms I have in the early to mid 1990s at the old Great Western Gun Show that used to run at the Fairground Complex in Pomona, California.
I think that was the largest gun show i have ever seen before or since; just massive. The dealers selling old props were salted through the show, but there were two or three of them that had tables piled high during those years with prop house uniforms. A LOT of uniforms.
It sounds similar to your experience with the barrels of swords. I seem to recall those being there in quantity as well. In fact, the last time I went out to the Collectors Armory in Culver City California, there were actually barrels full of swords in that shop.
Many of those swords were from the studios and were marked to specific ones like MGM. I came very close to picking up a US Model 1904 light cavalry Saber, but had just purchased a German cuirass and didn't want to spend the extra cash. It was fairly inexpensive as were many of the edged weapons there.
My buddy and I were talking with the proprietor for a while, and he was talking about having been part of a massive purchase of Studio firearms during that period. From what he was saying, a lot of other stuff came with the sale, like swords. If I recall correctly, they ended up with a large number of Trapdoor Springfields as well as some pretty rare items. That shop is worth a visit if you are ever out near Culver City.
I picked up the majority of the prop house uniforms I have in the early to mid 1990s at the old Great Western Gun Show that used to run at the Fairground Complex in Pomona, California.
I think that was the largest gun show i have ever seen before or since; just massive. The dealers selling old props were salted through the show, but there were two or three of them that had tables piled high during those years with prop house uniforms. A LOT of uniforms.
It sounds similar to your experience with the barrels of swords. I seem to recall those being there in quantity as well. In fact, the last time I went out to the Collectors Armory in Culver City California, there were actually barrels full of swords in that shop.
Many of those swords were from the studios and were marked to specific ones like MGM. I came very close to picking up a US Model 1904 light cavalry Saber, but had just purchased a German cuirass and didn't want to spend the extra cash. It was fairly inexpensive as were many of the edged weapons there.
My buddy and I were talking with the proprietor for a while, and he was talking about having been part of a massive purchase of Studio firearms during that period. From what he was saying, a lot of other stuff came with the sale, like swords. If I recall correctly, they ended up with a large number of Trapdoor Springfields as well as some pretty rare items. That shop is worth a visit if you are ever out near Culver City.
USMC-EOD
Active member
Hi Tony,
Thanks for the assistance a few weeks back. You are a good man.
This is a pretty fun thread. I never would have imagined that it would go on for two pages! I guess I guess more folks here besides myself have had experiences with uniforms and whatnot from the old movie studios.
Being in Canada, you might want to check out Studio Prop sales yourself. Hollywood went bust for prop houses back in the 1990s because filming in SoCal got too expensive! The California state and city government bureaucracy and the film unions made it very difficult to film, so a lot of filming moved to Canada. The old prop houses left behind, died off.
I saw an episode of Stargate SG1 a decade or so ago, filmed in Canada, and when the heroes of the show were greeting some alien queen, her "royal guard" was standing around her throne wearing original Guarde du Korps cuirassier helmets, with spikes. The top point of the spikes had been pulled off and some poncy-foppish costumer had put ostrich feathers sticking out. But you could see they were the real thing; Garde Stars, chinscales and all!
There cannot be that many old film studio prop houses up there. If I lived in Canada, I think I might be pestering them to see what they had and what I could score. A small pile of GdK helmets would be worth it.
Thanks for the assistance a few weeks back. You are a good man.
This is a pretty fun thread. I never would have imagined that it would go on for two pages! I guess I guess more folks here besides myself have had experiences with uniforms and whatnot from the old movie studios.
Being in Canada, you might want to check out Studio Prop sales yourself. Hollywood went bust for prop houses back in the 1990s because filming in SoCal got too expensive! The California state and city government bureaucracy and the film unions made it very difficult to film, so a lot of filming moved to Canada. The old prop houses left behind, died off.
I saw an episode of Stargate SG1 a decade or so ago, filmed in Canada, and when the heroes of the show were greeting some alien queen, her "royal guard" was standing around her throne wearing original Guarde du Korps cuirassier helmets, with spikes. The top point of the spikes had been pulled off and some poncy-foppish costumer had put ostrich feathers sticking out. But you could see they were the real thing; Garde Stars, chinscales and all!
There cannot be that many old film studio prop houses up there. If I lived in Canada, I think I might be pestering them to see what they had and what I could score. A small pile of GdK helmets would be worth it.
He knows that I collect and restore hauben.I had missed this interesting discussion. Although I live in (West) Hollywood, I have never experienced any miracle find originating in the studios...
But my sister is a movie stage designer in France (for those who might have heard of it, she designed the stage set of the movie that won the Palme d'Or in Cannes last year: Titane).
Once she took me to a movie prop rental place in the Bastille area in Paris. She showed me a big cardboard box - at least one cubic meter - filled to the top with M15 spike helmets. The owner said I could help myself. Price was under $ 100 a piece...
But my sister is a movie stage designer in France (for those who might have heard of it, she designed the stage set of the movie that won the Palme d'Or in Cannes last year: Titane).
Once she took me to a movie prop rental place in the Bastille area in Paris. She showed me a big cardboard box - at least one cubic meter - filled to the top with M15 spike helmets. The owner said I could help myself. Price was under $ 100 a piece...
KAGGR#1
Well-known member
and what happened next ? Is this a "cliffhanger "?
Steve
Oh no, Steve. I purchased one. That's it.