I have succumbed to forum pressure

[SkipperJohn]

Some of our members may remember this helmet:

It is a Model 1860, Bremen IR75. I have had it for years (it's my first M60) and it had a newer model 67/71 Wappen.
I just assumed that the helmet was updated with a newer Wappen and retained in service, as so many helmets were.
A comment was made on the forum that this helmet should have the proper Wappen and that has bothered me since.
I never (really Never) modify any helmet that I purchase. I will replace missing parts with originals, but I seldom buy helmets that are missing parts. The only exception to that rule is an occasional M15 that needs a chinstrap and cockades (yes I have a couple of M15's with repro chinstraps, never a cockade though).

Nevertheless I found a Model 1860 Wappen with original handle nuts and I have replaced the Wappen on My 1860 Bremen:

It is the proper M1860 Wappen with straight tail feathers and measuring 120mm from the top of the crown to the bottom of the feathers.

The patina matches the other fittings on the helmet and there was no modification made to the helmet itself. The holes for the screw posts lined up perfectly and the "ghost" left behind from the other Wappen matches the new Wappen exactly. The only issue is a small split in the bandeaux:

This helmet is now 100%, unarguably, a Model 1860 Bremen meeting all of the regulations put forth for an 1860.
The Wappen is proper.
The Kokarde is 57mm and proper for Bremen (Bremen changed their Kokarde in 1897 to white with a red ring)
The helmet is stamped IR75 and dated 1866.

I'm still not sure how I feel about this. It is very hard for me to make a change to one of my helmets.

John

 

[Sandmann]

Nice Helmet John :bravo:
I think you did it right. Such rare Helmet should have the original Parts on it.
For me it‘s important that a seller will tell any modification he did on a Helmet. If he does handle it so a modification is ok

 

[stuka f]

I'm still not sure how I feel about this. It is very hard for me to make a change to one of my helmets.

Nice helmet, and I do know what you mean, by the quoted sentence.

I can't say I haven't, but it all depends on the story of the item.
If it comes out of the woodwork,...a sleeper... I would leave it as it is.
If it comes from a fellow collector, with no back ground history, I might.

To illustrate that there is a very nice threat on WRF with original time pic's showing" non regular " WWII, mostly, headdresses.
Very uncommon configuration's, I can tell you.
Things that most collectors would not accept.....
So; it stays confusing, to me to do it.
Not judging you, or criticizing you in anyway.

 

[argonne]

A comment was made on the forum that this helmet should have the proper Wappen and that has bothered me since.

John,

That´s always a problem with well-meaning comments....In this case, the theory is right: a M67/71 Wappen on a M60 helmet is not the pattern in which the original helmet was "born".

But as you wrote, Prussians are well known to have updated old helmets, especially those old patterns that changed a few times in the first years after the Pickelhaube was born. So I may think that the M67/71 Wappen on your helmet was part of its history. Fortunately, you did not change or destroy anything on the helmet, so you can fit both Wappen on it. All went good here

By the way, you wrote the cockade is 57mm. I always thought it has to be 51mm for M67 pattern :-k (Sergeant and below).
1857-1867 helmets had a 75mm stamped painted metal cockade.
Could your cockade be 55mm (for officers and Portepee Unteroffiziere at this time?) Then your helmet could have been the property of a Portepee Unteroffizier (ranks of Vizefeldwebel and Feldwebel). Because hanseatic cities have had particular cockades without silver ring affixed on it for the Portepee Unteroffiziere ranks, the only way to distinct them from the OR cockades was their bigger size.Those cockades were the same size as the officier cockades at this time, with a small central hole too to fit the metal chinscales, but those Portepee helmets did not show the stars and the voided crown on the Wappen as the officers helmets did.

Hanseatic cities were always a little bit particular for cockades rules. Here is a JR76 / RJR76 M95 helmet worn by a Vizefeldwebel (1914 k.i.a., having the function of an Offizierstellvertreter). This1897 late pattern Hamburg cockade still has no silver ring, shows a big central hole to fit the M91 post and has the size of an officer cockade (55mm) and not the size of a normal Mannschaften cockade (48mm). It´s a particularity for all Portepee hanseatic cockades before 1897 (Hamburg, Lübeck and Bremen), and for the Lübeck (JR162) and Hamburg (JR76 / RJR76) cockades after 1897.






Philippe
:wink:

 

[SkipperJohn]

Philippe.
You are quite correct that a Model 1867 should have a 51mm Kokarde; however, this is a Model 1860. The Kokarde size was reduced from 75mm to 56mm in 1860 to accommodate the reduced height of the shell. See Tony's article here:

http://www.kaisersbunker.com/pe/m1860.htm

I also wrote about 1860 Kokarden in a forum post here:

https://www.pickelhaubes.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13705

The Kokarde is flat instead of convex, which is typical for Bremen, and it has the Hanseatic Maltese cross. The cross is stamped into the Kokarde and not just painted on. The Maltese cross was used by Bremen until 1897 when the Kokarde switched to a white serrated disc with a red ring. There is evidence that this helmet had a 75mm Kokarde at one time, so it may have been cut down from an earlier model. There is absolutely no evidence that a Kokarde ever sat on the left side of this helmet. In 1867 a black and white Prussian Kokarde was to be placed on the right side of the helmet and the Bremen Kokarde was to be moved to the left. There is no indication that this happened.

If I had provenance for this helmet and knew it's exact history I would have never changed the Wappen. Since I do not have that provenance, to many collectors it just seemed wrong, as some were eager to point out. Taking this helmet back to a M1860 configuration, especially since everything lined up so perfectly, eliminates any question.

Oddly I do feel a little sad. It's like I hurt an old friend.

Very strange this hobby --- very strange.

John

 

[Tony without Kaiser]

//I never (really Never) modify any helmet that I purchase. I will replace missing parts with originals, but I seldom buy helmets that are missing parts. //

That would be two of us then.