Imperial German WW1 Fighting Knife

RON

RON

Well-known member
WWI Imperial German trench fighting knife manufacturer marked GOTTLIEB HAMMESFAHR SOLINGEN FOCHE on blade with an imperial proof mark on the opposite side which makes it a military imperial-era issue (instead of a private purchase); at least that's what I'm hoping...
The pictures are abviously the seller's as I haven't received it yet:
GermanImperialFightingKnife-WW1a.jpg

GermanImperialFightingKnife-WW1b.jpg

GermanImperialFightingKnife-WW1c.jpg
 
Gents, I'm seeing many fighting knives being advertised as WW1 German Issue Imperial era on eBay lately but the one that is confusing me is this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/GERMAN-WW2-TRENCH-KNIFE-W-METAL-SCABBARD-WOOD-HANDLE-/220753058538?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3365e85aea
It has what I thought to be a crowned inspection mark (an inverted 'D' with a crown on top) similar to mine and thus making it imperial era... But if this is the case, why is the seller advertising it as WW2 era?
(obviously I don't have access to good reference books on German blankwaffen)
 
As you know , much of the war material that was left from the Great War ended up being used in part II of the Great War, viz. post September 1, 1939.
A rule of thumb I had been told was that re-cycled Great War knives typically were blackened (not sure if this was phosphate, blue or epoxy).
 
Ron: The kinfe in your photos and the one in the link you provided are recent reproductions made in India. The following link is to an advertisement for the same reproduction.

http://www.atthefrontshop.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=gwafk

Reservist1
 
Hey Eric, I guess you're right as many of these knives are advertised as either war (unless there's some marking to tell the difference)...

Hey R1, the one in the link I provided is indeed advertised as a reproduction of an original but what makes you think the first one (mine) is too? Is it the design itself which is wrong for that period?
 
Here's another link to the same knife where it is advertised as a WWII model with reference to Figure 191 of Stephen's Fighting Knives (p. 43).
Same maker (GOTTLIEB HAMMESFAHR SOLINGEN FOCHE) and proof mark (crowned inverted 'D') on the other side of the blade...
http://www.snyderstreasures.com/pages/germanknives.htm

Does anyone have this book to corroborate?
 
Ron: These trench knives are farily close copies of an original style. The things that give them away are as follow:
1. No traces of paint on the scabbard. Originals were painted either black or field gray before the leather was attached.
2. Condition of the leather, virtually no age or wear.
3. No wear to paint on handle strap snap cover.
4. No wear or age to the grip.
5. Grip plates are Rosewood,a type of wood found in India but not native to Europe.
6. No wear or age to the blade.
7. Lack of wear or age to rivets attaching belt loop to scabbard.
These knives can easily fool one, particularly if they have been played with to add artificial age. Don't forget these knives are supposed to be more than 90 years old. An original, even one in mint unissued condition, will show some evidence of age and oxidation.

Note: The same company in India also produced very good copies of the crank handle bayonet/trench knife.

Reservist1
 
Hey R1, I won't be able to sleep now... Never in my wildest imagination did I ever think someone all the way in India would think of copying a German trench knife!! Damn eBay!! :(
Can you at least tell me if it looks to you like a WW1 or WW2 replica?

What do you think about this new one that showed-up on eBay... Closer call right? But why does it have 'GERMANY' marked on the blade? Export?
http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-GERMAN-TRENCH-KNIFE-WOOD-HILT-WWI-/350472571004?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5199cb087c

It's funny but a Crank Handle DEMAG bayonet also showed-up:
http://cgi.ebay.com/NICE-GERMAN-ERSATZ-BAYONET-COMBINATION-TRENCH-KNIFE-/180685558820?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a11b2d424
What do think about it?
 
Ron: The Indian made copies were done for a US company that dealt exclusively in replica items from several different historical periods.
The knife is a close copy of a World War I period trench knife.

The trench knife and crank handle bayonet in your most recent post look like originals. Spend some time comparing the most recent ebay listing with your example. In the listing by the seller named "pcay" pay particular attention to the snap, rivets, grip panels & scabbard paint, and you will not get fooled again.

Reservist1
 
Hi R1
I agree, the PCAY Trench Knife looks more salty/original if benchmarked to your checklist, but what's with the 'GERMANY' mark on the blade next to that crowned inverted 'D'?

As for the Crank Handle, doesn't it look too rugged/badly molded to be authentic even for a late war production?

(I really don't feel like getting fooled again! Even if you don't pay much, it's the fact that you're so happy you've finally found a particular piece and later realize it's a fake piece of modern c*r*a*p... I'm pretty sure you guys know what I'm talking about!)
 
When I was visiting a friend in Austria, I noticed that they had a holf dozen or so trench knives in the silverware drawer, they used them as steak knives.
best
Gus
 
Hope you're all having a nice and quiet summer Sunday...

This is to let you know I ended-up returning that (replica) knife back to the seller after relaying to him the (negative) feedback I got on it.
He thanked me for the "education on these [knives]", reimbursed me, and immediately put it back for sale as an original once more!! (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350477704394)
So for those of you who might be tempted; don't get burned like I did and look for something like the below Trench Knife which I ended-up buying (thanks R1 :thumb up: ):
GermanFightingKnife-WWI-2c.jpg

GermanFightingKnife-WWI-2d.jpg

GermanFightingKnife-WWI-2j.jpg

GermanFightingKnife-WWI-2i.jpg
 
Another Crank Handle Fighting Knife/Bayonet just showed up on eBay.
According to seller, it has no markings which is weird. Shouldn't it have at least some inspection prrof on the blade opposite the spine?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Antique-German-Trench-Knife-Bayonet-WW1-WWI-/110722303180?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c79044cc
 
I like it. All the fakes are marked Demag - blank ricassos don't bother me.
It could be a really nicely aged fake, but the kind of corrosion, the steel of the blade, the condition of the scabbard look good to my eyes.
 
After doing some research; it turns out Private Purchase fighting knives were available for purchase by all ranks during the war as seen in the below picture from a drugstore!
GermanStore-1917.jpg


Such p.p. fighting knives remained in production for the Reichswehr well into the mid 30s during the Weimar Republic.
 
Welcome to the forum Richie!
The blade on my knife is actually 15 cm (6 in.) without the scabbard which adds about 1/2 an inch.
Total knife length with scabbard: 11 1/2 in.
Bayonets-Prussian1stBatt1stCoEMSeitengewehrS98-05nAS-1916.jpg
 
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