is this a real haub?

Ok guy's this is truning into a good conversation that I would like to hear more opinions on.

I got this 87th Officer helmet at the last SOS show, it is from the famed Walther Hartman collection.

Now this near mint helmet also has a perforated liner..... My first thoughts where maybe the soldier updated the liner after the war? But, the helmet does not look to be altered in anyway? So maybe this was a option when buying your helmet?

James







 
Great helmet & Great photos, James!

I've seen several legitimate Military helmets like this one of yours James, over the past 32 years, with perforated liners in the forehead area of the liner, and believe they are 100% correct wartime production or earlier.

Hopefully Joe will find evidence in one of his catalogs to back this up as well.

The helmet that started this thread is an "Erel" fiber body helmet with perforations around the entire liner sweatband, I believe. I'll have to go back and look at the photos from photobucket. I'll try to copy and post one enlarged on here to make it easier for everyone to see.

Did Erel manufacture helmets during WW1? They were one of the premium quality visor cap makers during the 3rd Reich. If I remember correctly, they made shako's during the third reich era as well.

The helmet that started this thread has perforations around the entire leather sweatband, I believe, unlike James's helmet. I have seen lots of police helmets that were post-WW1 era that have perforations on not only the forehead area of the liner, but also on the sides and back areas of the leather sweatband.

Has anyone else seen similar, or different perforation patterns on legitimate police helmets, or on unaltered wartime military officer helmets?

Best Regards,

Alan

 
I have and have owned several officer's helmets that were wartime or earlier that had perforated sweatbands. My pre-1912 IR 92 officer's helmet made by "Mars Patent" has these perforations...
 
I have and have owned several officer's helmets that were wartime or earlier that had perforated sweatbands. My pre-1912 IR 92 officer's helmet made by "Mars Patent" has these perforations... by Arran
Click to expand...

Which style, those like in James's 87th Reg't haube (perforations in forehead area only), or like the Bavarian Police haube by Erel (perforations in forehead and continue around the diameter of the sweatband)? Thanks Arran. :thumb up:

My bet is with Joe that he will be able to find something under the options in one of his old catalogs that shows this style of liner could be purchased for more money, probably as more of a "deluxe" liner that would breathe better, thus being more comfortable for the wearer.

Thanks Gentlemen,

Alan
 
When it comes to perforations in the sweatband none of the catalogs is really clear. There are no pictures of the liners. It is true however that most makers made the helmets in different levels. So the more you paid the more bells and whistles you got. In the DOV catalog there is mention of some sort of air holes but they use a word I am neither familiar with nor can translate. So while my feeling is that these perforations could be purchased as part of a "featherlight" option I have no pictures to provide that would prove it.

On a different note I did discover something new in the Werner catalogue. They give all sorts of options for purchasing spike tops of different length. I need to expand more on those catalogs once I get done with the current book projects! Don't tell Francis I'm goofing off looking up stuff for helmets… He will probably beat me!
 
Which style, those like in James's 87th Reg't haube (perforations in forehead area only), or like the Bavarian Police haube by Erel (perforations in forehead and continue around the diameter of the sweatband)? Thanks Arran.

I've only thus far seen the perforations in the forehead area on helmets I believed to be wartime or pre-war...
 
I've only thus far seen the perforations in the forehead area on helmets I believed to be wartime or pre-war... by Arran
Click to expand...

That's what my thoughts and experience has been as well. Thanks Arran!

I look forward to learning more from Joe & his great old catalogs!

All the Best,

Alan
 
A great discussion gentlemen, but let's not forget that pickelhauben were still produced and worn on official occasions and parades in the 30's...
Maybe I'm wrong about the perforations, but still the liner of the helmet that started this thread looks post WW1 because of the perforations, but also because of the thickness...

Adler
 
Agreed the first helmet is Post War. But I am loving this conversation on the perforated front like mine.

James
 
So do I James. As I've been wrong before, it may be in this case also, but I've once read somewhere that perforated liners indicate they were made post WW1. Of course it's to long ago to remember where I've read it #-o (getting old or so?)...
I hope someone can find the correct answer with written prove or even better with a period picture...

Adler
 
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