Italian Adrian Questions
- Thread starter siquisiri
- Start date
Hello Francisco,
The M1915 Italian helmet was made in France and is identical to the French helmet, some were even shipped to Italy with the French flaming bomb emblem, but most did not have insgnia, and should not have holes in the front of the shell, the early helmets were painted HB as the French and constructed of four pieces, the shell, comb, front and reart peak (I forgot the liner and chin strap, but those are not usually counted) The M1916 helmet was made in Italy, and is of two piece construction with the front and rear peak formed with the shell, and the comb should be weksded on, although I have a M1916 that has rivets in places where the welds broke, this was an arsenal redo. The liner on the M1916 is very much like the French liner, but instead fo HB wool used, you will find Gregio-verdi woll used. The Chin strap on the M1916 is normally died green as the leather gear was. You can find M15 and M16 helmets with stenciled insgnia Or hand painted.
I hope this helps,
Gus
The M1915 Italian helmet was made in France and is identical to the French helmet, some were even shipped to Italy with the French flaming bomb emblem, but most did not have insgnia, and should not have holes in the front of the shell, the early helmets were painted HB as the French and constructed of four pieces, the shell, comb, front and reart peak (I forgot the liner and chin strap, but those are not usually counted) The M1916 helmet was made in Italy, and is of two piece construction with the front and rear peak formed with the shell, and the comb should be weksded on, although I have a M1916 that has rivets in places where the welds broke, this was an arsenal redo. The liner on the M1916 is very much like the French liner, but instead fo HB wool used, you will find Gregio-verdi woll used. The Chin strap on the M1916 is normally died green as the leather gear was. You can find M15 and M16 helmets with stenciled insgnia Or hand painted.
I hope this helps,
Gus
Peter_Suciu
Well-known member
siquisiri said:
The primary characteristic would be that you'd only see the back of it as the soldiers ran away! :lol:
Sorry, just joking!
zipperheads9
New member
Can you find lots of the Mk 1 English helmets? or a fewof these ?
. Nicr links I wish i could interprit that info. good looking article
Mark
. Nicr links I wish i could interprit that info. good looking article
Mark
Hey Mark,zipperheads9 said:
I tried babblefish, but it will not translate, it looks like the Mk I helmets are different than the British model.
Otto, I looks like the M1932 Adrian had a cockade in National colours on the front, the smaller comb on top is very distinctive.
Best wishes
Gus
PS Otto, thanks for the links
zipperheads9 said:
Hi Mark,
Gsu is right. The Brazilian Mk1 is diferent that the English the margin (I don't know the correct word) of the Brazilian helmet is straight, while the one of English is turned inside and flat. The liner is also different, and the Brazilian is less heavy.
Otto
PS. I don't know if you was able to understand my explanation in Tarzan language/words, sorry
Peter_Suciu
Well-known member
Gustaf said:
There are a few tell-tale points between the British and American helmets. But first the Brodie is actually the first British helmet. It was magnetic because of the steel used. These first helmets did NOT have a rim according to most sources.
The Brodie led to the MkI, which is NOT magnetic. The Americans used the MkI but then produced their own version called the Model 1917. The British chinstrap D-Ring is attached by a bent over split rivet. The American D-Ring is attached by a flat rivet that gets pounded down. The British helmet typically has a smoother surface, while the American helmet had cork in the paint.
I have not seen widespread use of American helmets by the British and I would be surprised if this was the case. The British actually had a surplus of helmets and thus I find it odd that they would need American helmets on the Western Front. More likely is that after WWI the Americans supplied Model 1917 helmets to distance British colonies such as Hong Kong.
Peter_Suciu
Well-known member
Gustaf said:
Hi Gus--
I don't know about the true "Adrian" being used by Peru or Mexico. The Adrian typically refers to the French Model 1915 helmet designed by Major Adrian. The replacement helmet was the Model 1926 (M26). I have both Peruvian and Mexican M26 helmets.
The Mexican helmet (this one was clearly used for a LONG time):
Mexican badge:
Peruvian:
Peruvian badge:
Hey Peter,
A couple of points, first, I was about to call bs on the non magnetic bit, but I thought that I should check first, My Brit and Am helmets have non-magnetic bodies, the only thing that the magnet will attract are the rims and fittings, what kind of steel alloy are these? I thought you had to get to stainless to get away from magnetic attraction, second, You are right about the M26 being the Mex and Peru melmets, but then the Brazilians call their M32 an Adrian too. I should have know that you could produce examples of these helmets (Otto could probably help you get am M32 Brazilian Casque). But if one was going to limit the M15 helmet to the title "Adrian" then the Italian M16 could not be labled such. Now for the next question, what model did the Spaniards use in the Civil War? It is very similar to the Italian M16, but the liner is leather and has three pads similar to the German helmet liner? I still think you should find a writer to write a book about your collection, it should not be too expensive, as I understand that writers work cheap. :lol:
Best wsihes
gus
A couple of points, first, I was about to call bs on the non magnetic bit, but I thought that I should check first, My Brit and Am helmets have non-magnetic bodies, the only thing that the magnet will attract are the rims and fittings, what kind of steel alloy are these? I thought you had to get to stainless to get away from magnetic attraction, second, You are right about the M26 being the Mex and Peru melmets, but then the Brazilians call their M32 an Adrian too. I should have know that you could produce examples of these helmets (Otto could probably help you get am M32 Brazilian Casque). But if one was going to limit the M15 helmet to the title "Adrian" then the Italian M16 could not be labled such. Now for the next question, what model did the Spaniards use in the Civil War? It is very similar to the Italian M16, but the liner is leather and has three pads similar to the German helmet liner? I still think you should find a writer to write a book about your collection, it should not be too expensive, as I understand that writers work cheap. :lol:
Best wsihes
gus
Peter_Suciu
Well-known member
Gustaf said:
Yes, it is interesting. German and French helmets from both wars are magnetic. British and American helmets are not! I've put these to the test. Note: that is actually one way to make sure a Brodie isn't merely a MkI that has had the rim removed!
OK, the steel alloy was developed by Sir Robert Hadfield. It is called Hadfield Manganese. It was developed to make the helmet strong after pressing and allow the helmet to retain the bowl shape. If you notice... German helmets seldom dent. But they do crack. This is because of the steel mixure. French helmets on the other hand are very thin to get that unique shape.
All the American experimental helmets from 1917-1919 used the same steel, as did the American M1.
Gustaf said:
It was a French collector who drummed that into my head. Major General... I think I previously said just "Major Adrian," actually only developed the M15. Just as Mr. Brodie developed the Brodie, but then had nothing to do with the steel of the MkI. Back to the MkI for a second. The reason for the switch to non-magnetic steel was that Brodie helmets were cracking, both during and after production. Obviously a helmet that cracks is as bad as no helmet at all.
OK, yes the Italian M16 should be just Italian M16.
Gustaf said:
You remind me of a joke from the TV show Frasier. Niles says he likes the English Civil War, while Daphney says she finds the American Civil War fascinating (Niles thinks it is boring). Frasier walks in, and when asked "what is his favorite Civil War," he replies, "Spanish."
OK, the answer to your question SHOULD be "whatever helmets they could get." But the truth is that most photos show no use of helmets. Much like the Russian Civil War helmets weren't really used all that much. I guess these guys thought real men don't wear helmets.
The most common helmet is actually that Czech helmet with the two lugs. I'd have to look it up. I had one once but traded it years ago.
There were several helmets in use, but not the Model 42 or Modelo Z. That was a Franco-era helmet only. And despite claims on eBay never made in Germany or on German machinery.
And yes, writers do write too cheaply... or else I'd have even more helmets!
Hey Peter.
I have an "Adrian" helmet that is similar to the Italian M 16, with the heavy OD paint, that many people have told me was use in th Spanish Civil war, the liner is not the normal Italina liner, I have been unable to place a time of maunfacture or plce, any ideas?
Gus
ps it is a good thing that writers work cheap, or you would have to charge us for your posts! :lol:
I have an "Adrian" helmet that is similar to the Italian M 16, with the heavy OD paint, that many people have told me was use in th Spanish Civil war, the liner is not the normal Italina liner, I have been unable to place a time of maunfacture or plce, any ideas?
Gus
ps it is a good thing that writers work cheap, or you would have to charge us for your posts! :lol: