Jager Zu Pferde Metalhelme

RON

RON

Well-known member
Hello all,
In my qyest to find nice & fairly priced M1915 Cavalry metalhelms (Kurassier & Jager), I found the following on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/WWI-Prussian-Jaeger-Zu-Pferde-Pickelhaube_W0QQitemZ290541739257QQcategoryZ156395QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m8QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DMW%26its%3DC%26itu%3DUCC%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7591516044859972647

Is this the Officer or NCO version? EM would've had its metal fittings painted feldgrau.
Needless to say I'd rather shop elsewhere than eBay. Ideally from one of you guys...
 
As far as I know pre-1915 Jäger zu Pferde helmets were equipped with chinscales unlike 1915 models, which contained a leather chinstrap. Therefore, it surprises me that this 1915 model has chinscales, which is suspicious to me. Furthermore, the position of the chinscales seems wrong to me, too high. However, I could be wrong :D

Personally, I would never buy a helmet on ebay because its full of crap. There are several reasonable-priced online dealers which are frequently mentioned in a positive way on this forum.

Best regards,

Edwin
 
The trim (brass) matches the rest of the helmet. There's a lot of denting to the back of the dome, which would be my concern... probably why nobody was biting on his other prices.

:D Ron
 
Hey Ron,
Is this an M1915 Officer (or NCO) version or is it a mixture of older fittings on a 1915 shell?
 
It's an OR version as far as I know. Maybe somebody can clarify that if I'm wrong. The officer versions had a neck guard similar to a Kurassier with a polished silver body (steel) and silver, rather than brass or gilt trim on the visors and neck.

As I understand it, just because it was manufactured in 1915 doesn't make it a 'classic' M15. This one has the pre-war brass and fittings. It may have been made using old stock. If the visor trim were steel, I'd say otherwise. If I'm not mistaken, it took manufacturers a while to adhere to new directives.

:D Ron
 
Gray trim Model 1915 JzP helmets were not adopted until August 1915. The helmet in question is an issue helmet made prior to the adoption of the Model 1915. The helmet is marked to JzP regiment 8. Therefore, the chinscales, edging, rivets, side lugs & spike/base are tombak. The front plate should be brass.

JzP regiment 8 was not formed until 1913 and initially wore standard dragoon helmets due equipment shortages. They did not receive metal JzP helmets until early 1915. A helmet identical to the one at issue is illustrated and discussed in The German Army in the First World War, Uniforms and equipment 1914-1918, by Jurgen Kraus, pages 414 through 419.
 
Hi Guys,

Yes, reservist1 is correct in the identification, an 8th JzP Rgt helmet. It's up for sale by Brent Smith, of ?North Carolina or ?South Carolina.

I saw it in person at the S.O.S. a few weeks ago. Looked at it Saturday morning w/Tony Cowan, along w/other pieces Brent had on his table, including a rare field cover for a lobster tail e.m. helmet.

Chinscales are most likely original to the helmet.

He's finally come down on the price. It's been re-listed several times (original reserve at $3,200, which he held on to at the S.O.S.), and had been on another forum for quite some time also.

Yes, the body is "rippled" or dinged up quite a bit with denting, as seen in the pictures. Brinkman's Jewelers in St. Paul, MN can take the dents out. They do nice work, but aren't cheap.

As a side note, "not to toot my own horn in promotion", but I have a 1916 wartime Jaeger zu Pferde currently on eBay. Before the past few months of continued economic disgust in the USA, these used to sell for around $1,200-$1,400 in price. I purchased mine from a friend at the show, who's 81 yrs old, and had the piece since he was a teenager.

All the Best,

Alan Schaefer
 
Hello Alan,
Your metalhelme on eBay would've been what I'm looking for if it wasn't for the missing cockades & strap and also the Kurassier-type spike (although we all agree these were often mixed by the manufacturers themselves).
I would've clicked on the Buy It Now button without hesitation otherwise as it is quite nice.
Conclusion: I am still looking for both wartime Cavalry Metalhelmes; if you're out there let me know!
 
If you have basic metal working skills a nice mushroom stake and planishing hammer (plus CARE and Patience!) can take out dents as well.

:D Ron
 
Brad has the correct contact info for a website shown above, and here are two more contact/info web sites:

http://www.dexknows.com/business_profiles/brinkmans-b377441

http://www.dexknows.com/business_profiles/brinkmans-b377441/gallery


I have never used their services, but have some friends in the MN & WI area who have had repairs done by them. They do replating, and dent removal, among other things. I've seen a garde du korps enlisted helmet with eagle come out of their shop looking spectacular.

Thanks for the comments on my jaeger zu pferde, and your interest in it. I've purposely kept the kokardes & chinstrap that originally came with it (kokarde set at least $150 value, chinstrap worth anywhere between $250-$300). The $400+ replacement value in these three pieces wouldn't have increased the bid price of the helmet to justify my keeping them on the helmet. But try to find the pieces separately, and then one would have to pay at least $400 for the 3-pieces. The final bid price on the helmet wouldn't have justified my keeping the kokardes & chinstrap on the helmet. Sorry! Parted out pieces are like used car parts, they're usually worth far more as parts, than as a completed unit.

In the past year, I've seen junk condition jaeger zu pferde helmets sell for $1,150-$1,250 range, probably due to the spread exchange rate between the euro & dollar. With the current increasing negativity of the world economic & political situation, buyers are more fickle, and prices seem to be soft. Most commonly found/plentiful military items of the Imperial & Third Reich era have dropped in realized prices by approximately 40% in the past year.

All the Best,

Alan
 
Hey Alan,
You should swap spikes with Brent's Kurassier helmet on eBay & I'd be in for your metalhelme :)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290541740233

[Link fixed by Tony]
 
Yes, I thought about that. Unfortunately it's too late on my end.

Mine is going down the road yet this afternoon.

I contacted the high bidder and came to an agreeable price for both of us.

All the Best,

Alan
 
I also have seen pieces broken up for parts recently on Ebay...Bavarian Officer I believe it was. In my opinion it is a real shame to seperate/break up pieces of History which have survived intact for so long. However, economics rules us all these days and probably will continue to do so. Another spin off from the great melt down of "08"!
 
Hi Brian,

Yes, I agree with what you've said.

I decided to keep the chinstrap, since it is so nice. It is also more like those that are more commonly found on the M16 & M17 helmets versus pickelhaube, because it has the rivet construction, versus sewn ends on the buckles. So I'm not sure if it was originally on the helmet, or not. I've known the guy I bought it from for about 3-years, and he's 81 yrs old now, and had had the piece since he was a teenager.

The kokardes are also pretty nice. I can always use a good pair on a nicer helmet.

I simply figured the pieces were too nice for the price that the helmet would bring for me to justify letting them go with the helmet. So yes, it does make me sort of cringe inside, stripping nice parts off a helmet, wondering if the pieces were on there since the war.

All the Best,

Alan
 
To confirm - if needed - what R1 wrote, here are two similar JzP helmets in mint and out-of-the-cellar-and-never-cleaned conditions, respectively. Both are marked to JP8 and Juncker. One is dated 1914, the other one 1915.
Yes, the helmet highlighted by Ron is undoubtedly legitimate, if not in the best condition.
L1000684.jpg

L1000675.jpg

L1000667.jpg

L1000674.jpg

L1000670.jpg
 
Gorgeous pieces!
You guys are lucky to have so many of these in the States due to the many vet bring backs and the War Bond Helmets...
 
Another pre-Aug. 1915 regulations just popped-out on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/PRUSIA-JAGER-ZU-PFERDE-EM-HELMET-8-RG-MARKED-ORIGINAL-/290544931394?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item43a5d3d242
It has the wrong wappen but it is argued that some regiments had the regular eagle applied, isn't it?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top