Jocks other Pickelhelm

[Jock]

Hello everyone,
Just to cheer you all up, I thought I might regale you with a description of my other Helmet. I will need to send Joe a photo so he can import it or whatever, for you all to hum and ha over, as I still have not sussed out the photo business on this site .
It is a fairly unremarkable standard issue (I think) helmet with a leather chinstrap and Black/White/Red cocade on the RHS and a Black/White/Black cocade on the other (Left) side. 5 hole spike. NO VENTS !! on rear spine (thank god).
On the inside rear neck guard there is stamped JR 79 and a large stamped date 1888. There is also what looks like an 83 R which is scored through by a thick ink line. These are all on the left side. On the right side is R.J.????? 2R ( as far as I can discern) also scored through. Under that is what looks like someones name also scored through. The liner has 9 tongues and the drawsring of leather is still there. The Wappen plate is secured with leather shims about 1.5 inches long. There is a sicker on the inside (which I have only just dicovered when I pulled open the liner tongues), which reads...Muskettier
Wichmann
8 Komp. Inf.-Rgt. Nr. 79
Well that was a surprise. I had better look in the other helmet. You never know it might read Corporal A Hitler !
That should give you all something to get your teeth into !! No other marking to be seen. Time for a beer after dicovering that sticker.
Regards to you all
Jock

 

[b.loree]

Hi Jock, welcome to the forum, our paths have not crossed here before. JR 79 would make your helmet from the Inf Regt von Voigts-Rhetz formed in 1838, based at Hildesheim and part of the X Army Korps. This unit wore the Gibralter cuff title. Check out The Kaisers Bunker, Tonys' web site for colour pics of this uniform with title. The wappen is of course the Prussian line eagle.
It is quite common for these helmets to have multiple Regt markings as they were re issued regularly. Brian

 

[Jock]

Thank you Brian for your comments.
I know Hildesheim very well as it was one of our Divisions defensive areas in the cold war.
I bought the helmet in a village not too far away from the town. Strange how things come around. Many thanks once again.
Regards
Jock

 

[joerookery]

Looking good!

 

[Jock]

Hello Brian , Hello Joe,
You 2 guys are real stars ! If I ever get to your "sinking ships" venue in KY ( ? ) I will be buying beers all night I reckon.
For Joe. How come your photos of mine look better than the originals ?
Is this like in the Army, you have to do a course on how to squat before becoming a Grunt. I have an expensive (Dutch ) digital camera which cannot give me what I want. Therefor, Sir , please be patient with me, ....as the actress said to the bishop !
For Brian. Thanks for the attention to detail that you have given to my queries. You told me about the link of my helmet to Hildesheim and that prompted me to get in touch with the Stadt Archiv who, hopefully will get back to me to answer my query to them, soon. I will keep you posted
For Joe again, I failed to thank you for that lovely poster with reference to beer and the bread of life. How come it was printed in USA in German ?
Looks like I am becoming a sad "Hauben Head" after only a few days on your Juice.
Help!!!
Jock

 

[joerookery]

How come your photos of mine look better than the originals ?

I use some filters in photoshop. The real question is why my pictures look worse than the original artifacts!

How come it was printed in USA in German ?

NY State German newspaper. There were several of these pro-German American papers. Written in German and published in USA. We had a huge German population and German only narrowly was voted down as the official US language in 1781 I think. When USA entered the war in 1917, being German suddenly became unpopular. Many German Speakng organs ceased publication. The famous Pennsylvania Dutch are really German. XI US Federal Corps at Gettysburg was entirely German. The only language used in the corps was German. One of the Division Commanders was some dude named Robinson.

Factoid. The US Army War College had a statue of Fredrick the Great given to them by the Kaiser. When the USA entered the war in 1917 the statue was hidden to avoid vandalism. It has been since brought out.

My wife grew up in Yankton South Dakota. In 1917 the Rhine Creek running though town was renamed the Marne.

So much for boring you all.

 

[Jock]

Dear Joe, Thank for your last posting.
It is bright sunshine here today and I have just taken the helmet outside to look at it.
Inside I found a square box stamp with B.A.V. and 1915 underneath both inside the box stamp. To the side of this is 149 in large letters either in ink or perhaps pencil. The stamp is about 1 inch above the left hand side hole for the chinstrap.
On the right hand side further back between chinstrap hole and centre rear is a circular stamp about 3/4 inch dia with some very small writing running round the inside of the circle. Too small to read or decipher.
These are only visible in daylight not in electric light.
Hope this helps not hinders.

 

[joerookery]

Ok Jock homework!
read this about your BA mark
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/DepotMarks.htm

See if your circular mark matches any of these
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles/Helmet_Makers.htm

So much to know so little time.......

 

[Jock]

Joe, thank you for the homework! A lot of reading to do in this hobby !
I have looked and looked again at the helmet stamp and I think it is one of only 2 candidates, due to shape and pattern of letter impressions.
The best bet I think would be Maury & Co from Offenbach am Main & Mainz.
However, that is an awful long way from where the Regiment comes from.
The second bet would be Carl Billep from Spandau. Now that is Berlin and much closer to the Regimental location.
What say you ? Does the makers' location vis a vis the Regiments' matter?
My second question is exactly what Pattern is this helmet (stamped 1888)?
See Pictures above.
Thanks again for the education.
Regards,
Jock.

 

[joerookery]

Does the makers' location vis a vis the Regiments' matter?

Yes and no. The maker sold to a corps BKA. The equipment inspectors had wide range in the corps area. Also a vendor cold sell to numerous corps. More regional is better but no iron rule.

 

[Jock]

The Stadt-Archiv replied to my enquiries ref IR 79 as follows.
Konstantin Bernhard von Voigts Rhetz was a "Preussischer General der Infanterie".
Born 16.07.1809 in Seesen am Harz. Died 14.04.1877 in Wiesbaden.
The Regiment was stationed in the Bahnhofsalle Kaserne. This was totally destroyed on 22nd of March 1945 by allied air attack. Nothing survived.
They state that Photographs of Regimental members and flags/ badges? (Fahnen) and other information can be found in....
Buhlers, Max (Hrsg )
Geschichte des Infanterie-Regiments von Voigts-Rhetz
(3. Hannoverschen ) Nr 79
Hildesheim : Gerstenberg, (um 1907 ). VII, 360 S.
Hope this is of some interest.
Regards Jock

 

[zipperheads9]

Nice Hauben , they become more addictive.
North America in total had a large German Population . The Colt Manufacturing Plant had a riot by it's German employees ,when the Canadian Expeditionary Force went to pick up an order of pistols and MG's .
I digress as usual
Wlekommen
Zippey.
p>S Grunt's have to be taught everything .PBI

 

[joerookery]

Jock,

I was playing around with flags for this answer and had a lot of fun. IR 79 was part of 39th brigade, 20th division, X Corps, in the second Army. They entered Belgium on 11 August and remained with the 20th division throughout the war. They bounced back and forth between the West Front and Russia are several times. The regiment was not specifically highlighted in the German Atrocities book!