Landsturm Uberzug and long shovel

joerookery

joerookery

Well-known member
This morning we have a "transitional" (?????) Lansturman.
XII1uberzug.jpg

XII1uberzug_1.jpg

Ok so the guy is from Landsturm Bn XII 1 Dresden. His collar dogs say XII. They are SUPPOSED to have a 1 there too. These corps numbers became collar parts in April 1915. The Bn was mobilized on 26/8/1914.

The Uberzug has the 1 applied in what looks like an afterthought. Also a Lansturm Infantry unit with a long handled shovel. After Tony did that great laydown on shakos -- a little more uberzug oddness.
 
Joe

Another cool pc! That poor guy looked like he was draggin' ass. This brings me to a question: I have always been of the opinion (keep in mind I am no photograghy expert) that when looking at b/w pics of the uberzeugs, that if the numbers/letters appear dark they were probably red, and if they appeared lighter they were probably green.

How does everybody feel about that? Am I on the wrong track? We know that Red was pre-war, and that green was early-war, what years this occured I am unclear.

What color do you feel the numbers are on this Landsturmer? Common sense would say green.

As for the collar devices, was it just Landsturm who wore these, or did the Landwehr also?

Geo
 
George
(keep in mind I am no photograghy expert)
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Me neither. I THINK you are right but somewhere in some thread colors are explained. Worth doing some work on this......

The red numbers were replaced by dark green cloth on 15 August 1914. So very, very quickly. In some cases. There are green dyes and green ink, as well as green cloth. There is supposed to exist a regimental order from the 91st reserve infantry Regiment. From December 1914, that puts the green numbers on the back of a helmet cover.
On October 27, 1916 all numbers are removed with the exception of the cross for Landsturm.
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The roman numerals with an arabic number following is clear Landsturm. Just the brigade number I believe is again Landsturm only.
 
R1, I have often wondered about that. So is it safe to say that shovels will have the round "bulb" at the end of the handle?

Geo
 
R1
I believe he is carrying an axe, not a shovel.
Click to expand...

Sure does look like the back of an ax head doesn't it. This bn initially provided the security for Zivilarbeiter-Bn Nr.11.
 
Wyliecoyote said:
What color do you feel the numbers are on this Landsturmer? Common sense would say green.

As for the collar devices, was it just Landsturm who wore these, or did the Landwehr also?
Click to expand...

To add to what Joe said above, only Landsturm wore collar devices. Reserve did not, which is why when you see a photo of a guy wearing a "R" Überzug, you will see he has no collar devices. Could be wrong, I am at work, not working as hard as I should obviously.

If the Landsturm (Iron Cross or Roman numerals Überzug) did not wear a Pickelhaube until 1915, the numbers would have to green yes?

The "R" cover for Reserve Troops or "L" for Landwehr were both worn in being worn in 1914 so these (in theory) could be red or green.
 
Good Point, so the likelihood is green. How about the collar flashes, were they worn by both the Landsturm & Landwehr also?


Geo
 
The Landwehrkreuz on the Überzug only came in green, as it was not authorized until 1915. There are lots of interesting things in this photo. 1915 was the year of many changes, both in uniforms and gear. I think there was a lot of overlap too. The overcoat is the pre-September 1915 issue, but the shoulder strap is the illusive all black Landsturm pioneer "Gurtband" strap. They are so plain that no one saved an example. I have been searching for one for over forty years!

He is indeed carrying an axe, but long shovels were modified, as I have seen period photos of handles without the ball finial. In some instances, they were too long for the work at hand.

The Überzug is an inigma, but haven't we seen all sorts of odd sized and shaped numbers in period photos?

I have the following photo of two members of the 6.Ersatz Komp. of the Pionier Ersatz Bataillon XI. The NCO on the left has the tiny "XI" on the lace of his collar and the Offizierstellvertreter has nothing on his collar, but I can see some undiscernable device on his shoulder strap. God only knows what the number "1" on their helmet covers means. Normally, one would think it would be the company number. And by all rights, the cover should have the cross over the Roman XI, over the company number 6. Perhaps the back of the card is mislabeled, as according to my references there were only three companies of Landsturm pioneers in the XI Korps. So perhaps the "1" is a company number. Did I just answer my own question?? :oops:

Chip

 
Here we have a couple more. I have had a 50 mm one for a while. But this is the first 25 mm that I have.

steeluberzug_1.jpg
fri22350.jpg
 
How about a couple more?

Three men from Ldst.-I.-Btl. Frankfurt / Main (XVIII.Eight) (mobilized 1 Oct 1914). This postcard was cancelled in Frankfurt am Main 5 August 1914, right at the beginning of the war. So Hartwig Busche might be off a tad. They are wearing pickelhauben that have metallic Landwehr Crosses (25 mm and a standard Landwehr cross that would be used on a pickelhaube wappen. Thanks Joe!) affixed to their uberzugen (helmet covers).





 
joerookery said:
This morning we have a "transitional" (?????) Lansturman.
XII1uberzug.jpg

XII1uberzug_1.jpg

Ok so the guy is from Landsturm Bn XII 1 Dresden. His collar dogs say XII. They are SUPPOSED to have a 1 there too. These corps numbers became collar parts in April 1915. The Bn was mobilized on 26/8/1914.

The Uberzug has the 1 applied in what looks like an afterthought. Also a Lansturm Infantry unit with a long handled shovel. After Tony did that great laydown on shakos -- a little more uberzug oddness.
Click to expand...

Joe

I think that this was not an uncommon sight amongst XII. Armee Korps Landsturm units, as another Pionier (from XII.3) and some men from XII.7 have turned up.

Geo
 
Thanks Brett! And this is one of men from XII.7 with a fellow who might have matching 63 Landsturm Brigade dogs to go along with his uberzug.


 
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