M15 steel helmet Wappen


Active member
I finally put together another article/list on this subject. The idea is to determine which Wappen actually did have M15 variants.


Please send me your pictures and corrections -- I can use the advice.


Active member
Staff member
Great article Joe,
I have but one type of M15 Wappen, and you already have a photo of it.


Well-known member
Very very nice article Joe. I could send some pictures. How about a Mecklemburg helmet with the correct spike?...

KAGGR 1870

Here are two pics of the 10th artillery regiment wappen
You can use this pics




New member
Hello Joe,
That's mine again.
The awful chinstrap copy of the first photo is in a trash can.
Best regards



Active member
Bruno keeps sending in wonderful pictures. He is always stressing to us how important condition is. These examples he sent for the article are amazing. The Dragoon looks like it's pretty well new.



Tony without Kaiser

Staff member
Here is a rather scarce 82mm Sachsen Wappen only worn by:

Ulanen-Regts 17, 18, and 21;
Kgl. Sächs. Husaren-Regts 18, 19, & 20;
Kgl. Sächs. Telegraphen-Bataillon Nr.7;
3rd Komp of Luftschiffer-Bataillon Nr.2;
3rd Komp of Flieger-Bataillon Nr.1; and
2nd Komp Kraftfahr-Bataillon.

This Tschako belongs to my good friend Pete, but seeing as intellectual property laws apply in this case to the photo, not the actual item, and that the Tschako was here, and so was he when I took the photo, (out-cold on my couch) I think it will hold up in court.


Regimentals has a gray Mecklenburg Schwerin jaeger tschako for sale. Perhaps he would allow a photo or two...

By the way, the subject of this article and your arrangement is top-notch!!!



P.S. I was just scanning German evil-bay and saw there is a gray Bavarian jaeger tschako for sale and noticed that you don't have one listed in your article...


Active member
Thanks Dave -- I only miss spelled Tony's name at least three times -- sheesh -- I learn a lot in this. Let's take a look at these Bavarian Wappen for a minute.

You are right I do not have one in my article. What I was trying to do was eliminate some of the clutter by only listing one helmet that had a plate of that size. For instance 95 mm Prussian Wappen were used on several helmets. The 82 mm Saxon that Tony posted was used by a few units. I only intended to one posting per-size. Bavarians are just tough. It is my understanding and I could well be wrong, that in the
m15 plates there are only two Bavarian sizes. The big ones for mounted troops at a width of 145 mm. and the smaller ones weighing in at 110 mm. There seems to be a significant amount of variation in the smaller ones however, in general an infantry helmet should have the same sized plate as a gray shako. I have yet to be convinced that there is one with vines as reported by Orrick. It doesn't make sense. :cool: This is of course research and opinions!


Active member
I think the bavarian jaeger plate is smaller and a more "compressed" shape. You make the call...

I tried to figure out the entire Bavarian thing recently in a thread called Bavarian vines. Minnesota's Slim sent us three measurements of artillery and infantry plates and all three had different measurements. They were the "compressed" style.

Seibold on page 110 through 111 gives a detailed description of shakos and lists every measurement under the sun except the size of a Wappen. They look the same but could indeed be smaller. We really need to find someone who has both in their collection.


Active member
I really don't have a dog in this fight I would just like to know other opinions. Why couldn't they have an M15? I don't know much about the schools once the war started. I don't have any pictures. This is about prewar --

The Non-Commissioned Officer.
Non-commissioned Officers (NCO) came from two sources, either promoted from the ranks or having gone through the NCO training schools. Students graduated from Volksschule at approximately the age of 14. Military service would not begin until age 17 when young men could be inducted into the Landsturm. In addition to work, there was an option of joining and NCO preparatory training school. There were nine such schools scattered throughout the empire. The preparatory school had a general curriculum with much attention paid towards physical development throughout the two-year course. Once graduated from the preparatory school pupils could go to a NCO school. Again, there were nine of these. The course lasted two years for preparatory school graduates or three years for those who joined the NCO school directly without having gone through the preparatory school. This was a purely military school, whose graduates were either 19 or 20 years old. Upon graduation, they had to contract to remain in the active Army for four years. Graduates were posted to the regiments with some coming out as sergeants and others as Gefreiter. These schools accounted for about 25% of all NCOs.

The NCOs promoted from the ranks, were generally those who had reenlisted. While there was no specific time in grade requirements for promotion, it was seldom done in less than two years. Annually the members of the new class were scrutinized and those expected to reenlist and be suitable as an NCO attended special instruction within the regiment.

In the reserve and Landwehr some selected soldiers were provided special training as aspirant Unteroffiziere. Promotions to the rank of sergeant and above were not done until mobilization. However, Vizefeldwebel could be bestowed on older trainees and those whose social position was in accordance with a higher rank.

One large advantage in being a noncommissioned officer is that it was a requirement for employment for many positions as clerks or shopkeepers.