M1895 EM Pickelhaube

chrisutter

New member
M1895 EM Pickelhaube,
have some doubst about the cocarde
thank in advance for any opinion
 

Attachments

  • 20210701_112522.jpg
    20210701_112522.jpg
    301.3 KB · Views: 69
  • 20210701_112530.jpg
    20210701_112530.jpg
    276 KB · Views: 51
  • 20210701_112551.jpg
    20210701_112551.jpg
    260.8 KB · Views: 43
  • 20210701_112558.jpg
    20210701_112558.jpg
    320 KB · Views: 41
  • 20210701_112617.jpg
    20210701_112617.jpg
    340.3 KB · Views: 59
  • 20210701_112704.jpg
    20210701_112704.jpg
    449.3 KB · Views: 81
  • 20210915_182628.jpg
    20210915_182628.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 82
  • 20210915_182647.jpg
    20210915_182647.jpg
    1.4 MB · Views: 70
  • 20210915_212021.jpg
    20210915_212021.jpg
    1.2 MB · Views: 65
  • 20210915_212025.jpg
    20210915_212025.jpg
    1.6 MB · Views: 72

argonne

Well-known member
Hi,
This helmet has already have been discussed last week on the french forum....Both cockades are (old) reproductions!
French buyer has returned the helmet to seller because of that.
Rest of helmet is fine.

Philippe
;)
 

poniatowski

Well-known member
I agree. A nice looking helmet to be sure. I'd imagine any of us would be happy to have this one in our collections, so well done!

Ron
 

chrisutter

New member
It seems to be clear for you but not for the other member ... at least not for me. Why are they copies ? Could you explain the point that is wrong with this cocardes please !
 

JohnS3rd

Active member
It seems to be clear for you but not for the other member ... at least not for me. Why are they copies ? Could you explain the point that is wrong with this cocardes please !
Philippe,
Besides explaining why the cockades are old reproductions, why do you mention that the chinstrap is a reproduction? There are not enough pictures to indicate the chinstrap is a repop.
Thank you
John
 

ottodog8

Member
Yes, more pictures are needed. Looks like the edges and back might be dyed instead of natural leather, which is bad news. Also no edging lines. I saw aged reproductions 25 years ago that were perfect, so I’m always suspicious. Especially if the kokardes are reproductions.

Steve
 

SkipperJohn

Well-known member
It seems to be clear for you but not for the other member ... at least not for me. Why are they copies ? Could you explain the point that is wrong with this cocardes please !
I believe that the Kokarden could go either way. Here are a few tips that I use when trying to determine originality. First, the Kokarden were stamped instead of cast, so if they look cast (bubbles, subdued areas, etc) they are not original to that helmet. Anything older than 1860 bears closer scrutiny. Second, since the Kokarden were stamped the flare on the inside hole goes outward toward the chinstrap fitting. The first reverse photo you have looks good to me. The second reverse photo shows that the flare has been turned back inward. That inward turn is usually a sign to me that it is a reproduction. Third, take a look at the rust. You can often tell old rust from new (buried in the backyard) rust. I can't really explain this, but maybe you can understand what I mean. Last, you should weigh the Kokarden. I have found, 100% of the time with new repops, that a reproduction Kokarde weighs almost twice as much as an original, even if it is stamped. All that being said, these Kokarden are very convincing.
As for the chinstrap, it too could go either way. The reverse side should not be dyed; however, many of these turned dark grey, dark brown, or almost black with use. I have several like this. Sweat screws up leather something fierce. Also, some collectors in the past, in trying to "save" the chinstrap coated them in leather dye, black shoe polish, etc. It may be one of those, original but messed with. The fittings on the chinstrap should be roughly 1mm thick (see here: https://pickelhauben.net/m91-chinstraps-side-posts/ ). If they are thinner than that you should be skeptical. Glue on a chinstrap, especially at the buckle ends, is a dead give-away that something is wrong. This does not include glue that some former collector has used to try to make a cheap repair, though that is not a pleasing aspect either.
It's a beautiful helmet and I would be proud to own it.
Congratulations!

John
 
Last edited:

coert65

Active member
I fully agree with John on this. If I would own it, I would be very happy with it. A very nice helmet!
 

argonne

Well-known member
Philippe,
Besides explaining why the cockades are old reproductions, why do you mention that the chinstrap is a reproduction? There are not enough pictures to indicate the chinstrap is a repop.
Thank you
John
I did not say that chinstrap also is a reproduction, only both cockades. We have on our French forum a very very long observation thread of a member who had made a special study about all pattern of cokades, with a lot of comparaison picts. He also bought all sorts of copies on the todays market and showed us the differences between good and bad. There are a few different patterns of original cockades. Some patterns have been reproduced, some others not. And: there are today some people who are able to alter some new reproduction cockades, with such an "original looking" patina that are fooling most collectors. This member is Clovis and he is also on this forum.

Philippe
;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

SkipperJohn

Well-known member
Philippe,
Can you post a link to the article on the French forum?
I am sure it would be interesting to many members here.
Thanks,

John
 

coert65

Active member
Thank's for the link Philippe!
I am not a member there, but it is perfectly readable for me. A lot of good info there by the way!

Regards, Coert.
 
Top