Matching the screw threads

joerookery

joerookery

Well-known member
http://cgi.ebay.com/1890s-Spiked-Helmet-German-WW1_W0QQitemZ6580759970QQcategoryZ13965QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
We recently had a discussion about fluted spikes. Now if we use this as an example. You would have the difficulty to find the spike, and then a further difficulty to match the threads up. Does anybody have any experience or tricks about how to match this up? How many different thread types, where there? It seems to me that the reproduction ones are always too thin. You have any ideas?
 
Joe,
Interesting area for a discussion. It seems that there is some consistency when it comes to the bolts that are used to fix the star studs or the helmet plates. All have a very course thread with a 1mm pitch. This is much more course than the standard metric nuts/bolts being used today. This is one of the ways that we can tell if the helmet is a repro. It would be interesting to actually measure the major diameter and the pitch (the distance between the threads) of our helmets to see how much variation is out there. Unfortunately we would need to use a dial caliper to be accurate and this is something that many people do not have lying around the house. Bill
 
Joe, Bill,

I just can't understand why, in such an Industrialised and organised country as Germany, they would not produce standard threads for all things. It was done in the UK with the "Whitworth" standards?
 
Mike,
The Whitworth standards were actually three different thread types and didn't become "standard" until 1841. The one lesson that this Forum has shown over and over is that on the surface Germany was industrialised and organized and regulated but in reality variation was the norm. Bill
 
Bill,

I do realise that the Whitworth standards did vary. But were there so many different threads produced in Germany? or was it again that certain makers cut their own?
 
I just can't understand why, in such an Industrialised and organised country as Germany, they would not produce standard threads for all things.
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You know Mike you make me giggle. I'm the one who is always trying to fit things in a standardized box. So I'm very glad to have an ally. The problem is, it never works. I think you touched on the root reason. There is a book that you might be able to find called "The Nation As a Local Metaphor" it delves into the integration of Wurttemberg into a national consciousness. There was no nation before 1871. The differences between the kingdoms were immense. The North Germans and South Germans were on different sides of a fundamental difference as to the sphere of influence. They had a very hard time integrating the nation, let alone thread sizes. Tony brought up the mounting methods used by different states. Many of these differences would be more pronounced prior to 1871. Or really prior to 1866. Everyone even the Bavarians tried to march to the Prussian drum after 1871. Industrial standardization obviously did not take place in all areas.

The DOV helmet catalog goes to great length to insist that if you did not buy the helmet from them, and you wanted to add a trichter, you had to bring in the spike base to ensure a proper match. This could account for changing of spike bases.

There certainly seems to be a bunch of different threads. I think Bill is correct that a coarse 1 mm thread is probably pretty close. However, the diameter of the hole differs dramatically. Maybe it is the same as memory cards are in the current world with Sony trying to make proprietary differences in memory cards.

It really surprises me and I mean really, that no documentation seems to exist on the subject. I do not recall reading in any reference anywhere saying things like geez, they don't all fit.

Anyway, it's nice to have someone who is looking for the same box I am!
 
Mike Huxley said:
I just can't understand why, in such an Industrialised and organised country as Germany, they would not produce standard threads for all things.
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In my humble opinion, it is because "Germany" did not exist until after the Great War. The German empire declared by Imperial Proclamation, January 18, 1871 was a confederation of German-speaking Kingdoms and other States. So much so, that these states all maintained their own customs agents and taxes right up until the end of the Great war. They were an alliance of countries and states, and everyone was concerned with their own standards, not each others.
 
the threads which are on my spikes and artillery balls are english as they say unc ,whitworth what ever it is so they will fit oriinals about 1/4inch maybe or slightly smaller all the stars though think are fine metric and on back of plates too but i honestly couldnt say what they are ,if you buy an original one with metric threads any where its got to be wrong
 
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