Mint, unworn Pickelhauben with Talcum Powder

Mike H

Mike H

Active member
Gentlemen,

I have seen a few examples of Pickelhauben in friends' collections that are mint and unworn and are covered with what appears to be a talcum powder coating. I was told they came from the manufacturer like this.

What is the story with the powder? What was its purpose? An example shown below.

Mike


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I have never heard that story before and I have been collecting hauben since the 1980’s. There are private purchase Officer helmets where the shell is made of lacquered felt and the visors stitched on. Any talc powder in my opinion might be some sort of chemical reaction after 100 years. At the same time, we all know here that this area of collecting is full of surprises.
 
b.loree said:
I have never heard that story before and I have been collecting hauben since the 1980’s. There are private purchase Officer helmets where the shell is made of lacquered felt and the visors stitched on. Any talc powder in my opinion might be some sort of chemical reaction after 100 years. At the same time, we all know here that this area of collecting is full of surprises.
Click to expand...

Brian,
You can indeed encounter, albeit rarely, as-new Pickelhauben with this white powdery coating. For instance, Kai Winkler had for sale an absolutely mint, unworn Bavarian Fahnrich helmet with the same appearance, which he described as "Talkumschicht" (talc coating). Helmut Weitze had a new-looking Reuss Einjahrige Freiwilliger helmet with, apparently, remnants of the same stuff. Talc has multiple uses, as you know, notably as a water-repellent protection and lubricant on various surfaces, rubber, garments... All helmets I saw with this appearance where as new, and never of the enlisted type. Presumably, talc was used as a protectant on helmets to be kept in storage... although I have no direct proof from the period that it was the case!
 
Quite an interesting discussion. One of my dealer friends, who has a spectacular Imperial collection, told me these are the Pickelhauben he looks for. With the white powdery look. Here are some other images of other helmets. One was on Weitze's site and I got there too late to buy it.

Mike


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If you look at other photos of these two helmets, they are both stone-mint, unworn condition. I can't imagine too many of these surviving decades of handling, moving, and owners messing with them.

Mike
 
Very interesting, I have learned something new. There are always surprises in this hobby. I suppose the talc was used to absorb humidity much like those small packets of crystals which we always find in new electronics, cameras etc. I have never encountered an as new helmet.
 
I've always assumed that these were war time made pieces and the "talcing" was to reduce the reflectiveness of the helmet. Are the bodies of these helmets leather or fiber?
 
aicusv said:
I've always assumed that these were war time made pieces and the "talcing" was to reduce the reflectiveness of the helmet. Are the bodies of these helmets leather or fiber?
Click to expand...

Those I was referring to were leather with flat black finish, and dated 1912 and 1913.
 
As I remember- it is also called pralinenn - in Germany (sp?)- is similar to what happens to chocolate- when it is kept too long- developing a whitish coating and it can ( sometimes ) be scraped off using your finger nail to reveal a shiny surface- but would you want to??? Yes. it is usually found on mint self purchased helmets. Randolpho AHZ
 
These helmets were shiny when new, but have developed this look not through wear (hence their minty condition) but through environmental conditions. If the mounts are removed, such as the spike base, you will see that the matte finish does not continue underneath. Furthermore, the matte rarely forms on the visors, or on non-leather helmets...
 
I have in my collection , a soldiers unused helmet that also turned dull like an old praline,
but I don’t know if that is the same thing that happened to the officer helmet above.

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To me it is certainly an environmental matter, and present because the helmets have not been handled much over the years. No natural oils were introduced to the leather.
 
The most mint helmets are one year voluntaries , I think when a helmet was never intensively kept shining , it became vulnerable for mold . If mold is left alone , it will ruin the surface .It's funny that those helmets are now the most wanted , after all ,the leader pickelhaube was always meant to shine.

wurtemberg-off..jpg
 
I agree. Your photo above my last post clearly presents some sort of mold which is present on the leather. No different than the mold on many leather field gear items.

I have a mint M1860 officer (Lippe Detmold) Pickelhaube with no such mold.
 
Hello, Willi -- and all.

This has been a great discussion. I queried a German dealer who has a Pickelhaube with this powdery look a few days ago and he finally responded with this statement:

"The talkum was used to keep the leather soft, I'm sure all makers do it."

However, that is in contradiction to some of the other posts here as well as this from yet another advanced collector:

"I'm confident it is not talcum powder, I heard this before and find no validity to it. It is some type of environmental effect. Mold may not be the best description but may also be why the dealers call it talcum 😊. Hard to sell items with mold. I've bought many leather belts and ammo pouches etc. stored in moist areas that develop the same effect."

I do find some credibility to the statement that few sellers would want to call it "mold". A dealer friend also said he has many of the original boxes for these helmets and none have a trace of talcum.

Mike
 
I don't believe its a true mold, which you would think would spread to the visors, no? I think its related to the thickness of lacquer and the leather its on when exposed to certain conditions of temperature and humidity. Interestingly, if you expose helmets like those above to heat (as in a hair dryer), the whiteness will disappear, although the smoothness of the finish is not restored...
 
Furthermore, this: "The talkum was used to keep the leather soft, I'm sure all makers do it." makes absolutely no sense! Who wants a helmet to be made of soft leather, and additionally, how is the "talc" supposed to penetrate the lacquer to the point of even affecting the leather? And does talc even have the effect of softening leather? I doubt it. What we need is to find a surviving helmet with this finish that also has a CdV of it being worn in a mint, shiny condition!
 
I have a EM wartime shako with gray eagle( minty inside and out unworn) and when I received it , it had this finish .
I hit it with windex and wiped it down with paper towels and it went away.
Probably should have kept it as is.
 
I agree mold is not the correct term for what we are talking about. And I agree that such a substance offers no protection to any leather it is present on.
 
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