Model 1860 Prussian Train Battalion Officer's Pickelhaube

SkipperJohn

Well-known member
This is my newest acquisition; a Prussian Train Battalion Officer's helmet:

m3MxndY.jpg


The Train Battalions consisted of supply and logistics troops. They used horse drawn wagons to haul the three B’s necessary for an army to function (beans, bullets, and bandages). Though they used the railways for logistic functions they were not railway troops. Railway troops were attached to Engineer battalions at this time.

d3uJoOg.jpg


Enlisted Train troops wore a Tschako until 1903, but officers never did. They wore the Pickelhaube since the formation of the Train Battalions in 1853.

j8kNymy.jpg


There is only one Kokarde on this helmet. The Reichskokarde was not adopted until 1897:

i6bvr1m.jpg


The Kokarde is made of leather with a metal ring. Perhaps a throwback to an earlier time:

gsK3lsZ.jpg


The liner is the square tongue type used by officers until 1880:

3jhBnCY.jpg


The Wappen is a highly detailed stamping and retains it's original gilding:

34tU5A7.jpg


This helmet could have been used in the Second Schleswig War, Prussia’s war with Denmark, 1 February 1864 to 30 October 1864; the Austro-Prussian War, Prussia’s war with the Austrian Empire, 14 June 1866 to 22 July 1866; and the Franco-Prussian War, 19 July 1870 to 28 January 1871.
Although a newer model helmet was implemented prior to the Franco-Prussian War, the Model 1867, these model 1860's may have been used in that conflict by veteran officers of earlier wars. Officers had to purchase their own equipment, so anyone becoming an officer after 1867 would likely purchase the newer version.

UrBObkI.jpg


John:)
 
Thank you for your comments.
I neglected to mention a couple of things. First, notice that the Wappen on the officer's model 1860 has voided wings as well as a voided crown.
Second, I have a research question. In the original post I was going to say that this helmet was used by Train Battalions 1 through 11; however, I found one very reliable source that said Train Battalion #10 used a Line Adler Wappen with bandeau. I can find no other source that states this. Does anybody know what bandeau TB10 would have used?
Research information on Train Battalions prior to WW1 is sparse.

John
 
John Train Abtl 10 did not have a Bandeau. No.

Someone is mixing up Pionier Btln 10 from Hanover (Peninsula Waterloo) with Train Abtl 10 which did not.
 
Thanks Tony. I had heard of that book but it is difficult to find.
Just like so many other texts concerning Pickelhauben it begins it's study in 1871.
Information prior to 1871, Franco-Prussian War and earlier, is hard to find and often has many conflicts.
PM, conversation message, sent.

John
 
Also so perhaps mention to your one very reliable source that the Waterloo Bandeau for all affected Regt. were not introduced until Wilhelm's decrees of 24 Jan 1899 introducing the Peninsula wars Bandeau.

So Wappen Bandeau are 40 years after your helmet was worn.
 
Tony,
I tried to start a conversation with you, but again it doesn't work.
I attached my message to our old conversation named "test".

John
 
Enlisted Train troops wore a Tschako until 1903
John,

In fact, they initially wore helmets. The AKO of 26 January 1854 introduced helmets for the permanent staff NCOs and soldiers of the Train Battalions. Until discontinued by the AKO of 16 September, they wore a Landwehr cross. From that time onwards they wore the helmet less the cross. And even before 1854 (1842) with the introduction of the Waffenrock, NCOs and soldier attached to the Train were equipped with helmets. The shako was introduced per order 27 November 1862 and generally in use following a war ministry order of 27 January 1863

This is just a quick overview but if you can read German I would suggest consulting "Geschichte der Organisation und Bekleidung des Trains der königlich Preußischen Armee 1740 bis 1888"

Regards
Glenn
 
John,

In fact, they initially wore helmets. The AKO of 26 January 1854 introduced helmets for the permanent staff NCOs and soldiers of the Train Battalions. Until discontinued by the AKO of 16 September, they wore a Landwehr cross. From that time onwards they wore the helmet less the cross. And even before 1854 (1842) with the introduction of the Waffenrock, NCOs and soldier attached to the Train were equipped with helmets. The shako was introduced per order 27 November 1862 and generally in use following a war ministry order of 27 January 1863

This is just a quick overview but if you can read German I would suggest consulting "Geschichte der Organisation und Bekleidung des Trains der königlich Preußischen Armee 1740 bis 1888"

Regards
Glenn
Very interesting. Thanks Glenn.
If I understand you correctly there could be such a thing as an enlisted, model 1860, Pickelhaube belonging to a Train Battalion?
It would have a standard Prussian Line Eagle Wappen. If it was an earlier Pickelhaube the Adler would have a Landwehr cross.
The next Pickelhaube model adopted by Train Battalions would have been the model 1895, correct?
What type of sword would a Train Battalion Officer have used in 1860, 1864, 1866, 1870?
I have seen just about every type of sword used by the Prussian Army with a blade marked to a Train Battalion. It seems that sword choice was a free-for-all.

John
 
Very interesting. Thanks Glenn.
If I understand you correctly there could be such a thing as an enlisted, model 1860, Pickelhaube belonging to a Train Battalion?
It would have a standard Prussian Line Eagle Wappen. If it was an earlier Pickelhaube the Adler would have a Landwehr cross.
The next Pickelhaube model adopted by Train Battalions would have been the model 1895, correct?
What type of sword would a Train Battalion Officer have used in 1860, 1864, 1866, 1870?
I have seen just about every type of sword used by the Prussian Army with a blade marked to a Train Battalion. It seems that sword choice was a free-for-all.

John
As Glenn noted, Train did wear Pickelhauben prior to 1863, but you can only go backwards to 1853 when the first Train Abteilung were established. Abteilung meant only a detachment, no-where near Battalion size.

The sabre for Train is relatively straight forward I think in that Train seemed to get the 'Hand me downs' of the Heer. So they were typically first armed with the M1811 Cavalry sabre especially after it was replaced in the Cavalry by the M1852. Then (again) when the Cavalry converted to M1889 Degen, their M1852 sabres were re-issued to the Train. It is very typical to find an M1852 issued and re-issued again to a Train Btln. in WWI. If you can find one.

But for officers, they would have worn the standard officer Lion-Head sabre or the more practical M1852 Mounted Officer sabre as did the Artillerie. Basically, unless there was a specific sword for officers, (like a Kürassier officer) then a mounted officer was a mounted officer and they had those two choices.
 
Thank you Tony. Do you know if they had any special symbol on their lion's head swords; like cavalry had crossed swords and artillery had crossed cannon barrels?

John
 
As Glenn noted, Train did wear Pickelhauben prior to 1863, but you can only go backwards to 1853
Morning Tony,

just to note that prior to the formation of the Trainstamm (A small core of permanent staff which would be expanded on mobilisation) in 1853 there were a category of soldiers known as the "kommandirte zum Train" i.e., attached to the train. These NCOs and private soldiers were from other arms utilised as train soldiers on mobilisation, for example in 1848/49 and 1850 and specially equipped and uniformed for the purpose. Here I quote (my translation) from the Geschichte der Organisation.... mentioned in my earlier post:

§ 50 In place of the shakos for the "kommandirte zum Train", helmets were introduced at the same time as the Waffenrock (1842). A cabinet letter of 1 August 1844 regarding this stated: The kommandirten zum Train shall receive yellow buttons and consequently yellow helmet fittings.

The uniform establishment of 16 December 1845 ordered for the attached soldiers to the Guard the Guard eagle with new silver star, for the attached soldiers of the line cavalry, the dragoon eagle and for the attached of the line infantry the heraldic eagle with F.R.

In respect of the form of the helmet and fittings as well as the cockade, as per § 29 (description of officers' helmets - introduced per order 23 October 1842 of black leather, very high with square front peak and rounded neck guard, the former with metal support etc.) The fittings of the Guard of Tombac, that of the line of brass.

The cockades of the men of varnished leather, those of the Portepee-Unteroffizer as per the officers.

The actual train battalions were established per order of 4 November 1856 and as you rightly point out were initially very tiny (essentially consisting of those NCOs and soldiers of the now re-named Trainstämme). They were however generally given a formation date of 1853 (the date of the formation of the corresponding Trainstamm).

Regards
Glenn
 
Thank you Tony. Do you know if they had any special symbol on their lion's head swords; like cavalry had crossed swords and artillery had crossed cannon barrels?

John
Not that I’m aware of John. Just to be sure though as I have had a run of errors relying on a rather shaky memory, I dug through then references and as expected found no reference anywhere to a special symbol for Train. Now that I think about it, the only deviation I’ve ever seen were crossed sabres, cross cannons for Artillerie or very rarely, an officers initials on the chappe (rain guard under the quillion or cross guard). Usually though, the chappe is blank. I can’t honestly think of what a Train symbol on there would be. Perhaps a Bratwurst over a loaf of bread?

Thank you Glenn for digging out that information from your reference library which is a gold mine for obscure information.
 
Thanks Tony.
I have noticed as my photography gets better, the more disappointed I am with it (the photography, not the helmet).
I just looked at the photo of the left side of this helmet. It shows "spiderwebbing" and hairline cracks on the surface of the shell.
These can't be seen under normal light. I didn't even know they were there until I took the photos!
The very thought of taking a "selfie" now scares the hell out of me! I look bad enough in natural light.

John
 
Last edited:
Back
Top