Need help with authentication

[Beardy]

Hello everybody, this is my first post to this forum. I need some help with authenticating 4 Kokarden. I dont know a lot about Pickelhauben and hope you guys can help me. I only got these because they were included in an lot of WW1 items. I looked at a guide on kaiserbunker.com but would like to hear your Opinions
Dont have high hopes for this one.
Leather Kokade - 6.8mm Diameter. Could only be 1842 or 1844 type. Should be 7.5mm, could it have shrunken over time?
What State would this belong to?


Reich, 5.1mm Diameter with .8mm hole. Patina looks off to me.



Reich, 5.5mm Diameter .9mm hole,maybe repainted?



Prussian, 4.9mm Diameter, .8mm hole

 

[Amybellars]

Welcome to the forum.

My bet on the first one is a fake. Second one is a Reich cockade but has been repainted. Third one looks original. Reich cockade as well. Fourth one, no clue as all paint work has vanished.

Regards
Amy Bellars

 

[CLOVIS 57]

Hello,
The first one looks authentic to me, but be careful, you're taking the Prussian diameter. 0r many small states, not yet under the German unit of 1867, had headdresses with Landkokarde. For me, cockade of a “Germanic” but not Prussian headdress of before 67. Not necessarily for helmets, for Shako, for example. I will try to identify the nationality of the colors, but one is with almost 200 years of seniority, and one has only paintings or drawings (not photo color at the time!)

The second :
51mm and 8 in the center hole, this is the Prussian Landkokarde for M67 tip helmets. The central hole is 8mm to accommodate the D-shaped cap nut, into which the slotted screw securing the chinstrap is screwed. This roundel has been repainted. The black is 0K, the white has been repainted in the right color, but the red should be black like the tips

Third:
Reichskokarde M67 large module for cuirassier helmet, troopM67 not M94,. Authentic paintwork. Reichscolor M97, so for Juncker for example , with the scaled chinstrap and no side-post. It can also be used for a fireman's helmet, but is generally smaller. 52mm

the fourth :
Identical to the M67, but of more recent manufacture, and slightly reduced in diameter to 4.9mm. This is an M67/91 for Extra-Helm Eigentum,Troop cockade, but to fit an officer's quality helmet, not regulation, ...for Freiwilliger, Fähnrich...
requiring a rosette-fastened chinstrap and folding lugs.

Commercial “Extra-Helm” products are always difficult to demonstrate, because they are non-regulated, and therefore have “freedoms” of presentation.
As a general rule, Kammer's M97 Reichskokardes (regulation) are for side post 91/94 (19mm center hole) 'A small 8mm hole is for officer-type chinstraps, but if troop cockade, it's for privately-purchased Extra-Helm helmets.